Dieback and related issues concerning JM witch's brooms

Discussion in 'Maples' started by katsura, Jun 21, 2011.

  1. Jaybee63

    Jaybee63 Active Member Maple Society

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    Ouch, I rarely loose a maple but have a 6'-0" Shaina which has been ground planted for 5 years and have just noticed its died back completely and given up the ghost.
    As others had said, it always had die back, but mainly internal branches due to lack of light due to its density of twigs, but it always thrived and increased in size each year. In fact it always looked stunning when in leaf.
    It was probably the last Maple to shut down last year and was in full leaf well into December, although it was mild.
    Maf had said earlier about Shaina not drying out due to the density of leaves and I have to wonder if this was part of the problem with it being in leaf so late in the year.
    There is no over growing of the graft, although I have a Jerre Shwartz where this is very evident ( almost looks like it could snap at the graft and should be staked)
    I have noticed black streaking in the vascular tissue so guess it's Verticillium although I'm no expert. Also lost a peaches and cream over winter.
    All my other maples are budding up with one or two starting to leaf out.

    John
     
  2. Houzi

    Houzi Active Member

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    Sorry to hear that John,especialy after 5years.How've you faired this year regarding rainfall?,I know it's been tough further north and would probably stress most JMs.With the stupidly mild winter we've had I fully expected to have major bacterial damage this year.Well not sure if it is bacteria this time as the dead wood isn't black,but I have had horrendous die back on most maples and another 6footer cut down to nothing(probably bacteria on that one)Actually Shaina hasn't faired too bad(strange)there's a lot of interior die back(self pruning I call it ha)but the exterior has done OK.I'm always unsure about diagnosing vw as I'd expect any problems to manifest themselves as discoloured rings.Hope you haven't got that and have no further problems :)
     
  3. Jaybee63

    Jaybee63 Active Member Maple Society

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    This winter had definately been wet down South, day after day of heavy rain with temperatures well above normal.
    I have noted in the past that an awful lot of the shredded foliage isn't blown out with the winter winds and stayed accumulated in the dense branches, probably as a soggy mass and wouldn't have helped. I should of cleared this out, it's only Shaina I have noticed this on. Due to the density of its branches it's hard to clear out.
    I reckon in future if I replace with another Shaina I will prune to keep it opened up. I do thos on my other maples but for some reason never did on Shaina, it had a.ways been so dense.
    I reckon I will be able to take pics by the weekend of my first JM leafed out. First this year will be Dissectum Beni Shidare Tricolor.

    John
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
  4. Houzi

    Houzi Active Member

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    I wonder if the extra rain could have contributed it's demise seeing as it's not a strong cultivar.Luckily we escaped most of the rain but it has been exceptionally mild.Good luck trying to open out Shaina if you replace it.I tried that years ago but was fighting a losing battle.Every branch I removed was replaced with a couple more,there's just so many leave nodes in there.I just let it self prune now.Mind you I haven't seen a dense Shaina for sale for ages,they're all quickly grown with few branches...though it might make it easier to keep it open with a sparse frame to start with.
     
  5. Jaybee63

    Jaybee63 Active Member Maple Society

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    As an update, I called into Barthelemys on the off chance they had a large Shaina which would replace the large hole I have from my now deceased Shaina.
    Mathew was telling me they have none and would not grow them. In his words they are not worth it, they just "give up the ghost". More trouble than they are worth. He said there was nothing unusual in my specimen giving up.

    Now on the lookout for something similar but more robust.
    John
     
  6. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    John..You have to go for the Skeeters broom if you are wanting something similar if you have'nt already got one, this is what i went for when i lost both of my Shainas years ago,had them both in the ground doing nicely then they just died on me for no apparent reason,one after a couple of years then another lasted a little longer rubbish root systems though on both when i dug them up, seems to be nothing in there for them to hold on to the ground and get themselves established ?

    Went to see Hilton at Packhorse again years ago to see about getting another replacement Shaina for one last try when the last one expired. Arrived and said Hilton do you have a nice Shaina anywhere and his reply was ' What the hell do you want one of them for' enough said!!! end of my Shaina exploits then tried the Skeeters as the replacement tree good move never regretted the choice.

    Have a beautiful Skeeters now for a number of years just plods on nicely holds it's colour all year long very strong and sturdy upright branches very bushy as well arround the 4 ft mark now, tend to keep this in a container though. Every year when i do my annual 'tree lifting and this would look better over here excercise' i always think 'Agh' i will plant the Skeeter here and see what it does, then i think 'Rember the Shainas' and it then stays put in it's pot and just gets moved round the garden and does very nicely year after year.

    Offically the first day of spring today and we have gone a whole week in Yorkshire now without any rain!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a nightmare since last November never known weather like this, on the bright side though every established tree, young planted grafts , lifted trees etc have all made it through the winter safely and all are budding up very nicely now and look very promissing indeed, as usual it's a race to see who comes out first the Kashima looks to have the edge over the Murasaki kiyohime at present both zooming along.

    Actually going to do some digging tomorrow ( mmm.... now where did i leave my spade)

    Mark
     
  7. Jaybee63

    Jaybee63 Active Member Maple Society

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    I have a Skeeters but has struggled to put on growth. Maybe try another as its a different spot.
    My Murasaki Kiyohime has been out a few weeks now and was the first into leaf with Tricolor, Kashima is also now out, about 2 weeks after the first two. Lots of others are on the point of leafing out whilst others don't show much movement yet.
    I have always been lucky with not loosing trees but this year have also lost one of my Peaches and Cream.
     
  8. DeesGarden

    DeesGarden New Member

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    Hi,

    I have most of these new varieties, my skeeters broom has die back this year, its in a pot. I have no less than 20 of all kinds in the front bed. When I first moved in I noticed a good old blood good thriving in front bed by the forest edge, north facing, quiet shady I would say, it must be quiet old I'd say 20 years or so. I thought I could plant more, so I did, Katsura, Shinaya, Red Pigamy, DesShojo, you name it, its there. At the beginning I didn't bother with putting ericacious soil in, now I do. I had casualties, what I would say is this. The bed they most do well in is the front bed, and its sloped with mature forest Oak and Chestnut Trees, so dappled shade and sun. The fact its sloped means that they don't sit in water, although they like lots of rain water, they like to be dry fairly quickly. The ones I had in pots did suffer die back when I moved one to front bed its doing well. I think pots, they either outgrow them, or the biggest problem is the right degree of drainage. I think if the surface looks dry and you water then you don't see how quickly its dispersing. The ones I have at the back Jerry Shwarts seems to be a bit more hardy than the others, they do well in dry spots rather than wet spots, too much wind and sun can also be a huge problem. Love them fussy beauties.
     
  9. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

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    I have a very old Shaina and these die back issues only occur during very wet late Winters followed by a very wet Spring. Mine has what most would consider good drainage and the beds are mounded up. But they really need absolutely perfect drainage when the winter thaw is followed by lots of rain. It will not tolerate wet feet. I have other brooms at a higher elevation and they have no problems. We have some seasons that are not so saturated and the Shaina comes through with no die back.

    To add insult to injury, the sparrows sometimes eat the buds in Spring, these broom varieties are usually not strong enough to push out secondary buds and the impacted twigs and branches die as a result.

    Sparrows do eat Japanese maple buds in early Spring. I have witnessed it over several seasons and observed how some varieties will push small secondary buds but the weak growers or thin twigs almost never recover from the assault and it results in branch/twig failure. The varieties that are normally strong growers can fail if their energy reserves are low from a harsh winter or drought from the past growing season. I have seen a group of 5 or so eat all the buds in a matter of a few days. Every year I swear I will protect them next season but ultimately I just never do.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2017

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