Black Marks on Sango Kaku

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Squeezied, Oct 2, 2012.

  1. Squeezied

    Squeezied Active Member

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    I have a sango kaku that was planted a year and a half ago. It's been doing fairly decently; no major problems just minor diebacks and a few sun-scorched leaves. I've recently noticed a black mark on my sango kaku. I don't recall it being there from the beginning so I'm a bit concerned. Any insight? Is this a telltale sign of a major dieback??? :S
     

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  2. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Yes, this cultivar does this all the time and yours may go on to have more of it, start to die back. I don't know if this common syndrome has anything to do with bacterial blight or not, but this is the time of the year for bacterial blight.
     
  3. Squeezied

    Squeezied Active Member

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    That's a bit disconcerting as that is the main branch. Is there any way to help my tree?
     
  4. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Sorry to see this on your very pretty SK. I'd hit it with copper sulfate (Bordeaux mix or other) immediately. The blackish part is already dead, but the copper may halt or slow the spread. If it does, the tree will be OK although it will have a scar there. You could also try streptomycin if you can get hold of any... :)

    I've seen recommendations to excise the infected part with a razor blade, and have tried it but without luck. Whether that was because in my case the infection had already progressed too far, or was locally too virulent, or the method is flawed I don't know. But it's another option. Follow with copper after the operation if you choose to do it, and make sure the blade is sterilized with alcohol. In any case I'd look at this as a last option, I don't think your little tree is not there yet.

    Hopefully it will be all right, good luck.

    -E
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
  5. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    I've stopped such symptoms, whether it was bacterial blight or another disease I can't tell, by removing the black part and applying copper sulfate as suggested above: I actually made a kind of paste that I applied on and slightly around the wound, then used wound sealant on it (bonsai sealant).

    Spraying "aliette" (Fosetyl-Al) is also recommended by many of my friends but you shouldn't use it with other treatments at the same time.
     
  6. Squeezied

    Squeezied Active Member

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    Thank you very much for the responses. I think I will give the copper sulfate a try. Are they readily available at typical garden centres? Or do I need to order them online?
     
  7. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    Don't know about Canada, but over here, Bordeaux mix ("Bouillie bordelaise") is available everywhere, even in the gardening department of supermarket. It's a must for tomatoes, and it's used on many fruit trees (except apple trees), in particular those of the genus Prunus, every amateur gardener has some on their shelves.
     
  8. Squeezied

    Squeezied Active Member

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    So I went to two local garden shops today looking for copper sulfate. I found a fungicide called Safer's Defender Fungicide. It's a sulfur-based liquid to control powdery mildew, black spot and rust. Here's a product description: http://www.growcrazy.ca/product.php?id=312 I'm not sure if this is comparable to Bordeaux mixture.

    Will this product help me?
     
  9. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    I'm not sure: sulphur-based products are efficient against fungal diseases, so it might be OK, but cupper sulphate is said to be somewhat efficient against bacterial diseases too.

    I did a Google search, and to my surprise, it seems copper sulphate is very difficult to find in Canada. I even found a thread on a forum entitled "Where the smeg can I find copper sulphate in Canada?". Helped me to learn a new word, but can't help you any further.
     
  10. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Reminds me of the (very funny) old sifi series "Red Dwarf." One of the writer's favorite words. :)

    I don't think a straight sulfur treatment is what you want. One suggestion would be to try in an agri coop or a viticulture supplies store. Although most of the climate in Canada makes copper less essential than here in France, copper sulfate is used in many vineyards. BTW it is authorized in organic farming I believe, so that's another supplies route you could try. If you find another product that you're not sure about don't hesitate to ask.

    Good luck!
     
  11. Squeezied

    Squeezied Active Member

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    So I went to my local garden shop again to ask about Bordeaux spray. They said they stopped selling them last year. :(

    I was told to use Green Earth Dormant Spray Kit instead. It consists of horticultural oil and lime sulphur. Would this be any better?
     
  12. JT1

    JT1 Contributor 10 Years

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    I use lime sulfur spray in late winter or early spring to kill any bug eggs before they hatch in late spring. In my area it works out that I spray in February. It will also enhance the bark color of any silver or gray bark varieties. I don’t feel it is effective in treating the problem discussed in this post.

    Here is more information on this problem and copper spray that I provided the last time this problem with your Sango Kaku came up:

    Good luck. Maybe you can buy it online if you can't buy it locally. If all else fails, maybe try reaching out to a local grower or nursery to see if you can buy some or find out where they buy their products. If you get to know them, they may just give you some.
     
  13. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hi John,

    Thanks for the tip on sulfur spray and bark color. I didn't know that.

    Do you spray before or after the buds start to swell?

    @squeezied, perhaps it says something about the quality of advice you're getting from the garden center... it would appear they're just trying to flog whatever they've got on hand, whether it will be effective or not!

    -E
     
  14. JT1

    JT1 Contributor 10 Years

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    I spray on a morning when the temps are above freezing and it is forecasted to get up into the upper 40's (or more). My goal is to allow it to completely dry before the temps go back down below freezing. The buds are starting to swell, but it's done well before they break.

    One other tip, be sure not to spray on glass windows or plastic. If you do, rinse clean with fresh water asap. I got some on the lens of my landscape light and it etched it. Luckily never sprayed it on an expensive window, but it permanently damaged the glass lens of my landscape light ($15.00 mistake, where a picture window could be a $1500 mistake)
     
  15. 17 Maples

    17 Maples Active Member

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    if you are using a copper solution best time post autumn bloom - late November and then into February before bud swell but the material will not hurt any Oriental maple that I have encountered, either use a sticking agent to keep the copper material on or light dormant oil applied using manufacturer's directions. this is good in part if other maple types are in the yard and scale/aphids have been persistent earlier in the spring.

    appearances sound to be a bacterial blight but have found in clients properties this variety can succumb to improper root development in poor not so well drained soils. obvious you know about too much sun/heat intensity which will wash out the leaves if not toast them and will also scare and whiten the bark with burning.

    whatever you do on pruning with hand pruner or a fine toothed hand saw make sure you sterilize the tool(s). I have used odorless Lisol with excellent results.

    Eric
     
  16. JT1

    JT1 Contributor 10 Years

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    Eric, Thanks for the tip on using Lysol. I will have to try that. This season I used hand sanitizer, easy on pruners, but a real challenge on fine toothed saws. Also like the idea of using dormant oil to help prevent rain from washing away the copper solution.
     
  17. Squeezied

    Squeezied Active Member

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  18. 17 Maples

    17 Maples Active Member

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    JT1 you are very welcome if it helps. I also use a toothbrush sprayed in Lisol when cleaning the fine teeth of the two folding saws, then after pruing spray the blade and handle plus my gloves with the protectant, always a fine coat of oil when finished on all tools.

    Squeez

    not sure of the china clay but the copper sulfate material was produced and has been from rights given over to China was told over 5 years ago that the blue powder was no longer made in the States and that China had the rights to all manufacturing of the substance - thus the high rise in price which was nearly doubled. Just a further hint whatever type of "sprayer" unit used from small spray bottle to 2 gallon hand sprayer make sure your sprayer is thoroughly rinsed out well with water as if any material is left within the spray unit it will harden and can corrode metal parts and freeze up plastic. if you are spraying more than just the one Maple may I advise the larger 2 gallon type sprayer for your needs. fill the unit half full of water then apply the copper inside, then fill the unit with water to the top line marked. close the lid/plunger unit and then shake the unit really well, this way you do not hae anything insdie trying to settle out which it will do and even separate. Spray the contents completely out on your plants/nursery stock during the time of Dormancy.

    hopefully this is not too confusing.

    Eric
     
  19. Squeezied

    Squeezied Active Member

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    So I found this copper spray at a nursery: Green Earth Bordo Copper Spray. http://greenearth.ca/product/378-bordo-copper-spray It contains Tribasic copper sulphate. Let me know if I should purchase this. I assume yes, but I just want to confirm with you guys. :)

    In regards to the "sprayer" unit, I'm thinking of just going to a dollar shop and purchasing a cheap sprayer for a one time use.
     
  20. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    That should do the job, if anything will.
     
  21. Squeezied

    Squeezied Active Member

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    Just to confirm, I should wait til my JM is completely dormant before I spray right? Like December?
     
  22. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    If it were my maple, I'd spray it immediately, then every 15 days until next years leaves come out. My experience is that the copper doesn't bother the leaves much if at all (of maple trees, it can bother some plants though). In any case the most important now is to get the medicine to the infection.

    This is kind of chemo for maple cancer, it wont matter if the chemo causes some hair damage so long as the patient is saved!

    -E
     
  23. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    Same as Emery: if the leaves contain spores or a disease, they might spend the winter in the soil. As copper is harmless to Acers, better safe than sorry ;-)

    Alain
     
  24. Squeezied

    Squeezied Active Member

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    Oh ok thanks. I'll do it as soon as I can then.
     
  25. JT1

    JT1 Contributor 10 Years

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    One other thing to consider if your area is prone to late season frost, is to protect the tree from frost.

    Since frost forms on the bark surface and if very coarse, it is thought to cause very small cuts in the bark. (This is why some grey scaring forms on the top surface of the branch, sometimes some confuse this with sun damage) These cuts caused by frost are very small and not visible, but they are large enough to allow bacteria to enter the tree. In stressed trees this can lead to an infection outbreak in this area and other areas in the tree.

    I protect my container grown trees from late season frost (because they live with stress in their life and trees with stress are more susceptible to bacterial infections). I also protect any trees in the ground that struggled this growing season.

    To protect everything would be overkill and too time consuming. In my area (living by a huge body of water) I do not see frost until after my container grown trees are in the garage, so I only protect a stressed tree in the ground. This year its two, some years I don't do it at all when everything is healthy.

    Lastly, I would not prune this tree over winter. The cut will increase the chances of infection.
     

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