Are these both Bergenia emeiensis var. emeiensis?

Discussion in 'Talk about UBC Botanical Garden' started by wcutler, Apr 21, 2021.

  1. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Both these plants had a label saying Bergenia emeiensis var. emeiensis, Mt Omei bergenia. They look very different to me. Is the name right for both of them?

    This has what seemed like very large flowers for bergenia, and they were all drooping.

    Bergenia emeiensis var. emeiensis-2_UBCBC_Cutler_20210421_135844.jpg Bergenia emeiensis var. emeiensis-2_UBCBC_Cutler_20210421_135942.jpg Bergenia emeiensis var. emeiensis-2_UBCBC_Cutler_20210421_140022.jpg Bergenia emeiensis var. emeiensis-2_UBCBC_Cutler_20210421_140032.jpg
    Bergenia emeiensis var. emeiensis-2_UBCBC_Cutler_20210421_140048.jpg Bergenia emeiensis var. emeiensis-2_UBCBC_Cutler_20210421_140215.jpg Bergenia emeiensis var. emeiensis-2_UBCBC_Cutler_20210421_140229.jpg

    This group were all upright, somewhat smaller leaves, smaller flowers with petals not overlapping. I would not have paid this group any attention, except that it's where I first saw a label.

    Bergenia emeiensis var. emeiensis-1_UBCBC_Cutler_20210421_140113.jpg Bergenia emeiensis var. emeiensis-1_UBCBC_Cutler_20210421_140122.jpg Bergenia emeiensis var. emeiensis-1_UBCBC_Cutler_20210421_140136.jpg
     
  2. Margot

    Margot Renowned Contributor 10 Years

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    Wendy and I were talking about Bergenia emeiensis on the Virtual Garden Tour thread a few minutes ago (Post #770 and #771). I had asked if anyone could identify this Bergenia (attached) in my garden and Wendy linked the photos above. Mine does not have the drooping flowers shown in the first group of photos but they don't really look like those in the second set either. The flowers on my plant seem larger, sturdier and have red stems. I have to remember my plant may be something else like, maybe, Bergenia ciliata.

    A blogger I came across who seems to know quite a bit about Bergenias (well, more than I do, anyway) suggests that there may be a fair amount of variability among B. emeiensis. 1003 Gardens: Bergenia emeiensis 'Apple Blossom': a Chinese bergenia

    Maybe this explains the differences in the Bergenia emeiensis var. emeiensis Wendy saw.
     

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  3. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    I'm still hoping someone from the garden will say if this name is right for both these plants. The flowers on the drooping one are the largest bergenia flowers I've seen.
    Bergenia emeiensis var. emeiensis_UBCBG_Cutler_20210423_P1380286.JPG

    Here are some more photos of the upright one.
    Bergenia emeiensis var. emeiensis_UBCBG_Cutler_20210423_P1380289.JPG Bergenia emeiensis var. emeiensis_UBCBG_Cutler_20210423_P1380290.JPG Bergenia emeiensis var. emeiensis_UBCBG_Cutler_20210423_P1380291.JPG
     
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  4. Eric La Fountaine

    Eric La Fountaine Contributor Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    I just read Bergenia emeiensis C.Y. Wu ex J.T. Pan. It includes the type description and illustration. It describes them as "nodding...becoming upright as they fade". I had not noticed this before. The plants in your photos may be in different amounts of sun. The last image seems to show a few nodding flowers, perhaps the last to open on those plants. There is another bergenia listed in that bed, but it would have reddish flowers. I don't think it surrvives.

    572. BERGENIA EMEIENSIS: Saxifragaceae on JSTOR
     
  5. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Thanks, Eric! I'm about half-convinced. The plants are very near each other, in one case almost next to each other, in seemingly the same sun exposure, if I remember correctly, which is not a sure thing. The petals seem to be a totally different shape, on the nodding one so round that they overlap even when open, on the other so narrow that you can see the sepals between the petals.

    In the first photo under my heading "Here are some more photos of the upright one", there are two flowers with rounded petals at the bottom right corner. But, here's a photo of senescing flowers that show petals still rounded. BERGENIA EMEIENSIS - Cotswold Garden Flowers. On the other hand, Bergenia emeiensis in Flora of China @ efloras.org says "Petals white or reddish, narrowly obovate, 2.7-2.8 × 1-2.1 cm, base gradually narrowed into a claw", "narrowly" being the word of interest to me here. On the other other hand, there is a photo on the page at dec18.pdf (hardy-plant.org.uk) that shows the different shapes of the petals on nodding flowers and upright ones.

    These are at Lower Asian Way and Stearn, a group on each path.
     
  6. Eric La Fountaine

    Eric La Fountaine Contributor Forums Moderator 10 Years

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  7. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    They're a little small, even when expanded, and I'd have said they only showed the one with the more round petals, though the fourth image does seem to show a single flower with both petal shapes. That was pretty tricky.
     
  8. Eric La Fountaine

    Eric La Fountaine Contributor Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Wendy, I just went to look at the bergenia. You are correct that there are two distinct plants there. Two plants were received, and it seems there are two distinct clones spreading on opposite sides of the trail. One does have very wide petals and the leaves also look wide. The one with wide petals has not uprighted its flowers fully. That one might be a hybrid. It could just be normal variation of the species. It's great to notice these things and look for the differences.
     
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  9. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    I'll just add some senescing flowers on the Bergenia emeiensis var. emeiensis.
    Here are the narrow-petaled ones. These flowers look pretty much the same as they did when they were new.
    Bergenia emeiensis var. emeiensis-1_UBCBC_Cutler_20210505_135157.jpg Bergenia emeiensis var. emeiensis-1_UBCBC_Cutler_20210505_135210.jpg

    The others are now opened to the extent that the petals no longer overlap. They don't look like the others, though. And the stems are thicker and satiny-looking.
    Bergenia emeiensis var. emeiensis-2_UBCBC_Cutler_20210505_135244.jpg Bergenia emeiensis var. emeiensis-2_UBCBC_Cutler_20210505_135241.jpg Bergenia emeiensis var. emeiensis-2_UBCBC_Cutler_20210505_135258.jpg
     
  10. Eric La Fountaine

    Eric La Fountaine Contributor Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    I noticed the flowers on the second clone had completely uprighted themselves and there was good separation of the petals. May be we have two clones showing the ordinary variation of the species. I will have to get out and measure the leaves and such to see if it falls within the normal ranges for B. emeiensis.
     
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