Are old Root Systems good compost?

Discussion in 'Soils, Fertilizers and Composting' started by aahhaa, Apr 9, 2009.

  1. aahhaa

    aahhaa Member

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    South Haven Michigan USA
    Hi All-

    I've been digging up a new garden area that is a solid mesh of fine roots; the soil is a heavy clay/sand mixture (the Ice Age stopped around here).

    Nobody ever really mentions whether roots themselves add much in the way of nutrients to compost, and with the chance of them growing back, I don't want to just turn them under.

    What is the story on roots in general when organic material is in short supply?

    Oh, ps... I found an old Taylor thermometer, with a spike like for meat, but its range only covers from freezing to boiling. Its great for checking soil temps etc, but what would its kitchen use have been?
     
  2. Liz

    Liz Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Location:
    Victoria Australia [cool temperate]
    I would chop them up and put in compost if just tree roots. However if it is some thing that suckers from roots get rid of it.

    "3. Roots: shake as much soil as you can off clumped roots before putting them in the compost. Many people put much too much soil in the compost with the roots, and it clogs everything up. But always have some soil sprinkled throughout the pile. It helps to inoculate the compost with the beneficial soil microorganisms that make the process happen, especially if you're not using animal manure, and clay particles in the soil help to spread a thin film of moisture throughout the pile, which is just what you want."
    http://journeytoforever.org/compost_make.html
    Liz
     
  3. greengarden bev

    greengarden bev Active Member

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    I second Liz' advice on aggressive or persistent roots, especially the "resprout from the smallest little piece" types. I have bindweed in my soil and I wouldn't dare put it in the compost.

    I generally don't compost sod that I remove when digging new garden beds. Too much work to hack the clods into small bits so they don't overwhelm the pile and "clog things up" as Liz mentions. Also, unless your pile gets reliably hot, the roots won't be killed.

    To deal with sod and roots (but not bindweed) that might re-sprout if they're buried or turned, you can kill them first by shaking out as much of dirt as possible from each clump. Then put the clumps upside down on a sunny hot driveway or tarp for a couple of days, or until they're crispy and dead. Then return the clumps to the garden bed, incorporating them into the top few inches of soil--the "decomposition zone". Sometimes I use dead clumps of sod as mulch, especially in dry hot areas to keep the roots cool and preserve moisture. This can serve as a haven for slugs, though, so don't do this in a slug-prone area.

    Sometimes I just take all the "shaken" sod, along with any other springtime garden debris (there's always scads of it) and make a big pile. In the past I used to cover the pile with a tarp to keep stuff from re-growing, but now I just leave it so the birds and wildlife can use it for cover. After a couple of years the pile will decrease in height as the twigs and things compact and decompose. Eventually you'll be able to spade it up, throw some triple mix on top, and use it for another planting spot.

    A few years ago I took a bunch of sod and weeds and wet leaves and put them in a big black plastic contractors bag and let it sit for a year, just to see what would happen. I wondered if I'd get some useful organic matter or would it just be a stinky wet anaerobic mess. It was the latter. Very messy. Not a good idea.

    re: your question about roots and value to compost... Comfrey and other deep-rooted plants are sometimes grown especially for the compost pile. Their deep-ranging root systems capture nutrients, especially potassium, that can be useful in compost or in compost tea. Grass and weeds, however, are valuable not so much for nutrients they may add, but for plain old organic matter.

    On the general subject of compost as a "nutrient"... most plant-based composts are really really low in nutrients-- something like .5-.5-.5 NPK-- at least in the commercial stuff that gets tested. Even though compost is not rightly considered a fertilizer, it is still indispensable in the garden-- all the benefits of organic matter plus the microherd.

    Good luck with the new garden.
     
  4. aahhaa

    aahhaa Member

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    Thanks Liz & Bev! This's really an amazingly global forum...

    Liz- O.T. I recently saw a shocking satellite view of OZ with a huge dust plume blowing far out into the ocean; also am hearing there is a major drought happening in South Africa.
    We don't get a lot of info about the Southern Hemisphere climate 'up here'; can you recommend a link to a good southern climate covering site?

    Bev- howdy neighbor- very helpful, and I do have the slug problems- (being told beer is best, at least it tastes better than compost tea (:])
    Ontario is really versatile: Michigan gets a lot of our gardening supplies (not to mention lumber & car parts, etc) from you folks.
    I was buying a bunch of Canadian compressed peat, but somebody was telling me they were tearing up your Northern landscapes to get it (kinda like the oil shale issue). There is no other source of peat around here. Is this a real issue, neighbor? any advice?
     
  5. greengarden bev

    greengarden bev Active Member

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    Ah Michigan-- land of snow and snowmobiles and snowblowers and snowmen and snowcones. So much snow you guys don't even bother trying to salt the roads in winter. I wish they didn't do that around here!

    I don't have much advice on slugs-- they're not really a problem in our garden. I have an "expendable hosta & slugs patch" where all the hostas go. You know, the ones still not sold at 3 pm at the local hort society plant sale so, out of sympathy, you take them home and then you have to put them somewhere. I don't even like hostas that much and I have a patch of them that serve to attract any and all slugs in the area.

    Seriously though, one of the reasons I don't have slugs is our nicely drained soil and the fact that I don't use mulch in a lot of the garden. There are so many great self-seeding annuals and I don't want to thwart them. Also, I plan on adding compost and improving the soil for the next few years. After the soil gets better, I'll put some permanent mulch down, at least in the shrub borders.

    Grubs are another story. Right now the starlings are having the best springtime feast in years, after a very wet winter. What's left of the lawn is torn to shreds by the birds as well as skunks. The grubs are my "natural" garden makers. The areas where they've completely destroyed the grass become the next garden beds. I don't have to do any planning-- nature does it for me! I just need to spade the area, call the chickens over, and let them deal with the grubs. This summer I'll get to see if the chickens (which arrived in February) will eat slugs, too.

    re: peat. From what I understand, most of the baled peat sold in Eastern Canada comes from bogs in northern Quebec. The bogs are harvested systematically and when the peat layer is exhausted the area is planted with trees. The producers say that this is environmentally responsible, but that is simply not true. The area will never return to a peat bog, and it would never have supported trees had they not been planted. What you end up with is an alien landscape of monoculture spruce and the area's ecosystems totally wrecked forever.

    It's hard, though, to find a decent alternative to peat-based products, especially for seeding mixes. I have to admit that I still use a big bale of Premier PGX every year. But I don't buy peat for any other reason. My friend has a certified organic farm and she uses screened home-made compost for seeding, so that might be the way of the future.
     

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