Identification: another ID request...unrecognized pine tree

Discussion in 'Gymnosperms (incl. Conifers)' started by davidrt28, Apr 7, 2023.

  1. davidrt28

    davidrt28 Member

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    The forum is back not a moment too soon! On my recent travels, I spotted this unusual pine tree in an abandoned garden. It has dense pendulous needles and somewhat distinctive bark.
    mystery BARK.jpg mystery pine 1.jpg
     
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  2. Sulev

    Sulev Contributor

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  3. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Sorry, not Shortleaf. Any more pics, please? Ideally close-ups of the foliage, and cones if any. My provisional guess, which may well change with close-ups, is Pinus × schwerinii.
     
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  4. Sulev

    Sulev Contributor

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  5. davidrt28

    davidrt28 Member

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    I'm sorry I didn't think to get cones or needles from the ground. I was quasi-trespassing and in a hurry. This is 'muricah, you can get shot for that ;-)
    Pines are hardly a favorite of mine other than the obvious high-end ornamentals like P. bungeana. That being said, I've never seen one that looks quite like this. P. X schwerinii seems more plausible to me. But indeed the bark isn't quite a match. Totally far fetched supposition - could this be a hybrid involving P. patula? The droop of the needles was distinctive, but indeed P. wallichiana is one of the only other species that can contribute that look.
    Sorta close-up of the drooping of the needles:
     

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  6. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Thanks! Agree the bark is odd, but the foliage has very much the looks of a white pine (Pinus sect. Strobus). I fear any Pinus patula involvement is highly unlikely, too, particularly if this is in Maryland.

    Can you add the location, please? It might well help if it can be seen on google street view.
     
  7. davidrt28

    davidrt28 Member

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    It definitely can't be seen on street view! I agree a pure P. patula wouldn't be hardy in Maryland, but in theory it could hybridize with other Subsection Australes pines. However the only known ones seem to be with other tender pines, cf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybridization_in_pines
    So I think on balance this is probably just P. x schwerinii. Also that would be commercially available in past decades...this garden was locally notable but not the garden of some kind of renowned expert on conifers like the recently deceased Tom Cox, where I could imagine some totally one-of-a-kind hybrid existing. It did have several other nice rarities but this is the only one I couldn't immediately ID.
     
  8. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Thanks! If you get any chance to re-visit, it'll be interesting to see more of it!
     
  9. davidrt28

    davidrt28 Member

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    Michael - there's a Pine cultivar I've heard of for years but never had the chance to see. Called Pinus 'Mercury'. It is supposedly wallichiana x parviflora. Any chance it could be that? Anyhow, through my google skullduggery I was able to find a list of plants this nursery was growing in the early 2000s. It's an abandoned nursery site. (Of course, not every 'mother plant' on the property would have been propagated, so he might not have listed 'Mercury' even if he had a plant.) So could it have been any of these?


    PINUS CEMBRA

    Blue Mound
    Chalet
    Columnaris
    Nana
    Pygmaea
    Silver Sheen

    PINUS CONTORTA

    Spaan's Dwarf

    PINUS DENSIFLORA

    Aurea
    Globosa
    Heavy Bud
    Oculus-Draconis
    Pendula
    Prostrata
    Umbraculifera
    Umbraculifera Heavy Fruiter
    Umbraculifera Rata
    Umbraculifera Special

    PINUS EDULIS



    PINUS FLEXILIS

    Glauca
    Bergman's Dwarf
    Compacta
    Fastigiata
    Glauca Pendula
    Glauca Prostrata
    Globosa
    Reflexa
    Temple
    Vanderwolf's Pyramid

    PINUS HAKKODENSIS

    (Parviflora X Pumila)

    PINUS KORAIENSIS

    Morris Blue
    14-16'
    16-18'
    Nana
    Oculus-Draconis
    Sis

    PINUS LEUCODERMIS

    Aurea Spicata
    Compact Gem

    PINUS MUGO

    Gnome
    Prostrate
    Pygmy
    Sherwoodi
    Spaan
    Valley Cushion
    Winter Gold

    PINUS NIGRA

    Contorta
    Hornibrookiana
    Monstrosa

    PINUS PARVIFLORA

    Bergman #1,#2,#3
    4-5'
    5-6'
    6-8'
    Brevifolia
    5-6'
    6-8'
    8-10'
    Nana
    5-6'
    6-8'
    8-10'
    Adcock' Dwarf
    Baldwin
    Brevifolia Nana
    Compacta
    Emperor
    Fukumusume Goyo
    Gimborn's Ideal
    Gimborn's Pyramid
    Glauca
    Glauca Nana
    Glauca Wells
    Glauca Yatsubusa
    Hai-Matsu
    Hatzumarigoyo
    Hime-Goyo-Matsu
    Humilis
    Levy
    Nana
    Nasu Musume
    Nazi
    Pentaphylla 'Aizui'
    Pentaphylla Megishi
    Pentaphylla Miyazima
    Pentaphylla Nashi
    Pentaphylla Shiobara
    Pentaphylla #2
    Pumila Glauca
    Shiko-Goyo
    Tama-Yon-Go-Goyo
    Templehof
    Watson
    Yatsubusa
    Yatsubusa Pygmy

    PINUS PUECE



    PINUS PUMILA

    Dwarf
    Dwarf Blue
    Nana

    PINUS STROBUS

    Contorta
    Nana
    5-6'
    6-8'
    8-10'
    Pendula
    14-16'
    16-18'
    A.B.
    Alba
    Amelia's Dwarf
    Bennett Broom
    Bennett Clump Leaf
    Bennett Contorted
    Bennett Weirdo
    Bergman's Broom
    Bergman's Monstrosa Broom
    Bergman's Variegated
    Compacta
    Contorta Nana
    Densa
    Dove's Dwarf
    Fastigiata
    Flat Top
    Helen
    HersheyiiBroom
    Hillside Gem
    Hillside Winter Gold
    Horsford
    Laird's Broom
    Macopin
    Millstream
    Minima
    Minima Bronx
    Minima Martin's
    Nana Bayard
    Nivea
    Ontario
    Prostrata
    Pseudo-Monophylla
    Pumila
    Radiata
    Rarflora Glauca Nana
    Umbraculifera
    Witch's Broom
    Wyandanch

    PINUS SYLVESTRIS

    Viridis Compacta
    4-5'
    5-6'
    6-8'
    Aurea
    Barrie Bergman
    Bergman #2
    Beuvronensis
    Compacta
    Glauca Nana
    Globosa Viridis
    Nana
    Pygmaea
    Raraflora Brevifolia
    Repens
    Saxatilis
    Watereri
    Watereri Compacta Nana
     
  10. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Thanks! This list is from the garden is where you took the pics? Of that list, Pinus koraiensis is a good option - I did a search for Pinus koraiensis bark and found one or two pics that weren't too far different (though others less so!), and the foliage fits OK. It would also explain the lack of any cones in your photo, as (being a bird-dispersed pine) the cones are all gone by spring, when most other white pines still have old cones evident in the crown.
     
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  11. davidrt28

    davidrt28 Member

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  12. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    That's sad . . . wonder if any of the trees will be kept?
     
  13. davidrt28

    davidrt28 Member

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    I suppose it's possible. I plan to check back in a year or two.
     

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