American Chestnut in the Lower Mainland?

Discussion in 'Outdoor Gardening in the Pacific Northwest' started by Daniel Mosquin, May 17, 2004.

  1. Gregg Doughty

    Gregg Doughty New Member

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    Hey all
    I am aUBC Campus arborist and have also been obsessed with a true ID of this Castanea in the Old Arboretuem .
    I recently discovered a old file at our Nursery on the Systemic Arboretuem dating back to 1950's. That tree is listed several times as C. dentata.
    I have the file. Contact me if you would like to see it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2020
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  2. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    It's fine, we'll believe what you read. What we don't have to believe, though, is that they had the correct ID at the time, and there are many reasons it could have been recorded incorrectly. The characteristics of tree that's there is what you ultimately have to go by.

    Welcome to the forums, @Gregg Doughty. I'm happy to meet a UBC Campus arborist. I hope you'll stick around.
     
  3. Gregg Doughty

    Gregg Doughty New Member

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    Been on Campus 30 years . First 9 atBotanical garden. I ain't going nowhere!

    Using several keys to try to ID tree lead to
    close but not quite to proper ID.
    DNA would be the way.
    Likely due to the lack of people actually having seeing a true C. dentata.
    I know I haven't.
    I have seen wild C. sativa in the Alsace.

    Dr. Straley was a mentor and I miss Gerald every day.

    John Davidson was behind the Arbortuem planting.
    These forums suck for proper communication.
    Call me if anyone wants , call me 604 880 6753
    I am on Campus working daily .


    Gregg Doughty
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2020
  4. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    *poke*

    Oh, I don't know about that. Almost 350 000 messages in just under 20 years, they're not that bad.
     
  5. Gregg Doughty

    Gregg Doughty New Member

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    Hey Daniel
    Good stuff.
    I do not care for typing to communicate.
    That is what I was getting at.
    Rather talk .
    Keep up the good work.
     
  6. Jake Sherlock

    Jake Sherlock New Member

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    Hello from Gibsons. I too am very interested in American Chestnuts (C. dentata) alive and growing blight free here on the West Coast. I was raised at Agassiz and my Mother worked for many years at the research station there as secretary to the director back in the 70's and eighties. I've been aware of a stand of chestnut trees out that way since I was a boy but only recently decided to try and propagate some.Last summer I collected some twig and leaf samples and set about trying to identify the species using info I could find on the web including here. Every indication is that these trees are in fact American Chestnuts(they are not at the research station). Later last fall I made another trip out there and collected several hundred burrs and nuts. These also matched descriptions I could find. I stratified 100 nuts for 4 and a half months and now have 91 trees growing in pots in my fenced garden. They are from 2 to 10 inches (I'm old school) high and most are thriving although recent weather is not helping! I potted some in soil I created and others in promix. I would like to know about getting a positive dna type identification done as I believe these trees should be noted and protected.Near as I can tell they arrived here in B.C. before blight.took hold in the east.
     
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  7. Georgia Strait

    Georgia Strait Well-Known Member

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    Hello Jake - I have noted over the years a huge old tree behind Molly’s Reach - is it a chestnut?

    There is a similar appearance tree over at the north side (closest to Squamish band land) at Armours Beach also in Gibsons

    There are other trees in old neighbourhoods nearby too

    Are these American Ch the trees with a sharply needle fruit that breaks open to reveal a brown hard shell with a nut inside?
     
  8. Jake Sherlock

    Jake Sherlock New Member

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    Hi George,I am aware of that big tree behind Molly's. I don't think its a chestnut(sweet) but it may be a "horse" chestnut which is not a true chestnut at all and although very nice to look at and make necklaces of, the nuts/conkers are toxic. I will swing down and make closer observations and report back!
     
  9. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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  10. Georgia Strait

    Georgia Strait Well-Known Member

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    Wait - I think it’s a walnut. (At Molly’s) — it is huge and old and has survived a multitude of industrial neighbors including the former Shell Bulk oil / gas tanks —- huge tanks. They are gone hence the gravel parking area today — thé spot up above where Persephone boat is displayed was a Shell gas stn.

    ——-

    Then there is the other huge landmark tree at Armours Beach just north of Molly’s Reach

    Hère is a google view showing the big tree at Armours ... it’s the tall rounded deciduous. It’s not Arbutus I know that for sure.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Georgia Strait

    Georgia Strait Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of Sunshine Coast - does the botanical garden up above Sechelt have a chestnut ?

    I believe that property was a farm for Murray Nurseries known in Vanc
    ———
    I think they also had a holding area in the old « S Turns » (a curvy section of old Hwy 101 (EDIT now called Burton Rd) ) very close to where Coastal Tire shop is located off Russell Road a bit west of the IGA & Starbucks In Gibsons

    It’s a very overgrown lot with - when one looks closely - an odd assortment of ornamental trees .... maybe there’s an elusive Am Chestnut in there. (It’s private property)
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  12. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Much closer views needed to name any of the trees shown
     
  13. Jake Sherlock

    Jake Sherlock New Member

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    I'm siding with the Walnut theory on the "Molly's" tree. Definitely not horse chestnut. I will go look soon. My "horse chestnut" is absolutely plastered with burrs this year.Like I've never seen ....thousands. Last year it had about a dozen. I inherited this tree on the property as well as a large Butternut and many Hazels . The previous owner, long deceased, had a thing for nut trees as well(totally coincidental) and I have been slowly pruning and thinning to "bring in the light" so to speak. When I came to this place there were two massive untended English Laurels thirty feet high shrouding the Horse Chestnut. All had/have been savagely ravaged by bears for years. The Laurels had to go which was a huge undertaking but it has allowed the horse chestnut to get some light and holy moly the result this year is crazy.This is year three without the Laurels. I took a few crooked limbs off and just lightly pruned. The trunk is littered with bear claw marks and the tree shows its' neglect. I hope the bears don't wreck it again....Now back to American Chestnuts....
     
  14. Georgia Strait

    Georgia Strait Well-Known Member

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    Which chestnut is this one - it’s on the coast

    Chinese?
    Castanea mollissima?

    I have never seen any “fruit” because this is a sapling (& volunteer)

    However there is a VERY large similar tree nearby that the crows pick the spiked nuts from and break them off the power line (drop them on to pavement like they do with shellfish) so they can enjoy the harvest.

    So I imagine this sapling volunteer is a child of the nearby (100 feet away) large tree

    Each leaf is approx 8 inches from stem to point.

    It is deciduous .
     

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  15. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Agree with a walnut for this tree
     
  16. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    With planted examples in the region over 100' tall black walnut shown at Daniel's link to Google Maps is also small and presumably young as far as it goes.
     
  17. Jake Sherlock

    Jake Sherlock New Member

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    I am an enthusiastic amateur. Personally I'm all about learning whatever I can about everything I'm interested in! Now as to George's "sweet" chestnut leaves, I'm going with a hybrid of some kind. From what little I've gleaned it seems that a Mollissima has some what short and wider type leaf profile in general. No "hooks" are evident. The leaves on the samples I brought home to propagate had large distinctive Hooks...some almost doubling back on themselves and although some leaves were small, the large one were very long and not so broad..very like the few "American" examples I have found pictures of. I will get some pics of my young trees and figure out how to post them here. The ones I have in my own composted concoction are nice and dark green. The ones in promix seem more leggy and pale and some leaves are getting a curl/wrinkle thing goin on. I'm noting quite a reddish tinge on quite a few of the leaves as well. A pigment thing as opposed to a disease thing I figure...All very interesting!
     
  18. Georgia Strait

    Georgia Strait Well-Known Member

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    Hello RonB - thé Molly walnut (we assume walnut) is old and big and is slightly in a steep hill drop off so it looks shorter —- one day when on the coast I will go look

    The trunk base is substantial size fr what I recall - and I would guess it is at least 50 feet tall.

    It is also on the edge of pavement and a mix of old industrial fossil fuel products (brown field) in an area where it has depended on rain for hydration.
     
  19. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Attach photos and files
     
  20. Georgia Strait

    Georgia Strait Well-Known Member

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    Hello Jake Sherlock — Wendy had to post the destructions for me too back when.

    Now I find it easiest to post photos when I access this forum with my smart phone that I used to take the photos.

    So using your phone with an internet connection (likely your own wifi at home) ... you open your normal internet browser (I use google chrome I think but it might be safari on this phone)

    Get yourself to the forum website and log-in as you would with your desk computer

    (I saved this as a “remember me” password - plus I put the icon on my phone screen as a “favourite”)

    If you have an iPhone or other smart phone then it’s easy to upload photos you have taken with the phone — when you click the “upload” button beside the “post button” the forum will ask you if you want to upload from your library on your phone —- so proceed accordingly.

    Then click “post” once all the photos have finished 100% upload

    And with thé edit function, you can delete your uploaded photos later if you clicked the wrong thumbnail image

    EDIT - if you are more keyboard typist than phone screen or iPad type w thumbs — the workaround would be for you to type the words of message to forum on your normal desk computer then post and log out - then go to your smart phone and log on and edit your own post by uploading the photos you took w your phone
    —————-
    Looking forward to seeing pictures of your homestead trees.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
  21. Jake Sherlock

    Jake Sherlock New Member

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    I'd like to get back to why I signed up here... Is it possible..by someone at U.B.C. to identify C. Dentata through some sort of dna technique or is it just wishful thinking? I defer to gregg's posts above. Thank you.
     
  22. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Most likely wishful thinking. I don't know of any program where someone from the public can pay for the time / resources. But, I suppose you could contact the botany department directly.
     
  23. Georgia Strait

    Georgia Strait Well-Known Member

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    Out of interest - I think a few people who bought Okanagan vineyards have used this at renowned UC Davis

    Note thé price $
    Foundation Plant Services
     
  24. Jake Sherlock

    Jake Sherlock New Member

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    I see,I see...Very interesting. Expensive service and I note that Chestnut is not on the UC Davis list. Oh well, I guess there isn't really a way to positively ID these trees I've started. In my mind I figured that drill down identify techniques would be commonplace in todays tech oriented world.
     
  25. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Not quite there yet. I think we all dream of the day when we can use the leaf sampler dongle on our phones to do our identifications. Still, the price of several hundred dollars for some groups these days is much cheaper than it was a decade ago.

    Here's an article about a device being used in the field: Scientists sequence plant DNA in the field to identify species within hours

    Here's the upper end of pricing, I would guess, these days: Pricing
     

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