Acer palmatum 'Red Select'

Discussion in 'Acer palmatum cultivars (photos)' started by mr.shep, May 28, 2005.

  1. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Location:
    San Joaquin Valley, California
    'Red Select' is often confused in the nursery
    trade with 'Ever Red', 'Garnet' and 'Inaba
    shidare'. Although there are some references
    to this Maple being a selection from 'Dissectum
    Nigrum', this Maple is actually a seedling
    selection from 'Inaba shidare'.

    In the early Spring as the pubescence is showing
    this Maple will look identical to 'Inaba shidare'
    and 'Oregon Garnet'. As this Maple leafs out the
    difference in the color and the size of the leaves
    becomes quite evident as 'Red Select' has the
    smallest sized leaves in comparison to 'Inaba
    shidare' and 'Oregon Garnet'. This Maple by
    early Summer will be a green tone with red
    markings on the tips and the leaf margins of
    the lobes, very similar to the Summer color of
    'Oregon Garnet'. This Maple in the Fall will
    be more of a scarlet red in color with the late
    Summer new growth being a rich purple red
    in its Fall color.
     

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  2. Andre

    Andre Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Location:
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    If you're right, Vertrees is wrong because he says page 151 of "Japanese maples, 3rd edition" :"Inaba shidare and Red select are probably the same"
     
  3. mjh1676

    mjh1676 Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Location:
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    Andre,

    Take a look here:

    http://www.esveld.nl/htmldia/a/ex/acpish.htm

    If we can agree that all of these trees might be different, even slightly, then we have some means to explain the wide variability we see in the trees offered in the trade and in collections with the same names. It is often the case that they are indeed different.

    I actually feel that it is easiest to separate out Inabe shidare as its color will hold and it does not show that wide intermixing of reds and greens that Red Select, Ever Red, and Oregon Garnet will show. I think if we look at the Esveld photos we will see the color on Inaba shidare is actually quite different than on the tree Jim shows.

    What Vertrees likely had to struggle with was whether or not to try to separate out the trees or whether to group them. Sometimes it is easier in maples to group things. What Jim is giving us a chance to do is separate a bit. Now, if viewed in the spring to early summer we have some chance to see the differences; in mid-summer is is very hard and fall is not great either as we may not know what shade of red to look for.

    We will also fight cultural elements with these trees that may make the greens appear sooner and give us different shades of red to deal with. It takes the right environment and intensity of light to see the coloration Jim is showing. For example, in the cooler wetter Pacific Northwest, people may not ever see the color Jim shows. Here in hotter drier southern Oregon, I might or I might not.

    The dissectum I have in my front yard is now 4 years in the ground and was sold to me as Ever Red. This is the first year that it is showing what I feel are its true characteristics--the deep purple leaves on bright red petioles that are still holding color--I now think it is Inabe shidare. I have another dissectum planted the same time that was sold to me as Crimson Queen. After 4 years in the ground the leaf characteristics are still changing and I am not sure what it is. Both trees are 6-8 years of total age.

    Vertrees was in an area of Oregon where he would not have likely seen good color on all of these forms, providing he even had all of them.

    Michael
     
  4. chumasero

    chumasero Active Member

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    Location:
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    It will be more interesting if the difference coming from trees in different growing cultures but sharing the same name (for example Inabe shidare in Japan and in the US) is more significant than that of from different cultivars (for example Inabe shidare and Garnet) growing in close enough cultures (for example in Southern Oregon).
     
  5. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Location:
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    From my experience people do not want to know
    or will balk at the difference in color of a 'Inaba
    shidare' grown in Japan, let's say in Kyoto and a
    'Inaba shidare' grown in Fresno. Today, when
    most people see both Maples a day or two apart
    they are much more willing to think in terms of
    the Maples being two different plants rather than
    being the same Maple grown in two completely
    different environs. Only the people that know
    'Inaba shidare' well and understand the nature of
    that Maple will know they are the same plant in
    both locations. There are plenty enough people
    around that have had Maples for many years that
    will not know the two plants are of the same Maple.

    'Red Select' and 'Oregon Garnet' were not raised
    in the same nurseries. One Maple originated in
    California and named in Oregon and the other
    was raised and named in another location in
    Oregon. The whole purpose for letting the
    one Maple go to Oregon was to see if the colors
    that were seen in California would be the same
    once the Maple had been in Oregon for a few
    years. The Maple was also sent to Japan to
    grow on and monitor. When the consensus
    was that it was different enough from 'Inaba
    shidare' then it was allowed to be sold, albeit
    only to a handful of nurseries that also had
    their own collections of Maples. The other
    Maple was monitored for about 5 years and
    then wood was outlet to various propagators
    and introduced into the nursery trade in a
    relative short time in comparison to the
    other Maple that came about several years
    previous. Either way both Maples are
    distinctly different than their seed bearing
    parents were, in this case 'Inaba shidare'.

    As far as 'Garnet', the true form came out of
    Holland and even though that Maple is considered
    a nursery industry standard Maple it is seldom
    seen for sale any more by the retail nurseries.
    Why? People do not know the difference
    between an 'Oregon Garnet' and a 'Garnet'
    and they are as different as cheese and
    chalk. Only the coloring of the leaves are
    similar whereas the shapes of the leaves,
    the structure of the leaf lobes, the growth
    habits and the care of the Maples makes them
    worlds apart. One Maple is much tougher to
    grow and see it do well for us than the other
    one is. One Maple is vastly more tolerant of
    hot and dry winds than the other one is as
    one of them will burn up in a heartbeat and
    will soon have some twig die back whereas the
    other Maple may show some scorch but will
    not fry. One Maple with one missed watering
    in warm weather will instantly tell us it is not
    happy whereas the other Maple has the ability
    not to show any ill effects for the most part
    until the next missed watering. As a landscape
    plant one is almost useless to us whereas the
    other has become a standard landscape plant
    in comparison. I've seen a lot of 'Inaba shidare'
    sold that were 'Oregon Garnet' instead but even
    the experts do not know how those Maples are
    different. With the ho hum who cares attitude
    that so many people have today, why should I
    tell them how to tell the two Maples apart?
    "I know and you don't and I don't have to tell
    you" was a favorite expression used by one
    of my mentors in Maples. "Show me you
    want to know and I'll be glad to tell you".

    Jim
     
  6. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Location:
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    Not sure why I am not able to get these
    Fall colored photos of Red Select in
    focus. I will post these anyway and
    improve on them next year if need
    be. The truer Fall colors are on the
    left side of the first photo but we can
    every now and then get some softer
    orange reds and some purple red also
    on the same plant depending on light
    and the intensity of light. The more
    intense lighted areas can develop the
    soft purple red tones and the less light
    intense areas can show the orange reds.
    The first two photos were captured on
    November 29, 2005 and the last photo
    was taken December 7, 2005.
     

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  7. Yette

    Yette Member

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    Location:
    Toronto Ontario Canada
    Loved reading all these posts. I just purchased a "Red Select" having fallen in love with its bright red spring colour. A rookie to Japanese maples, I didn't realize it will turn green/red in Summer. Before I plant it, how will it look over-all from afar, green or plum. I'm planning to plant it with a taupe garage as a backdrop. I want the colour to stand out which it won't if it turns primarily green. Who can help.....I'll need to plant it soon.
     

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