Acer palmatum 'Pink Passion'

Discussion in 'Acer palmatum cultivars (photos)' started by D97x7, Jun 16, 2011.

  1. D97x7

    D97x7 Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Good morning,
    I couldn't find a thread for this little maple that I've just purchessed so I thought I'd start one. I don't know anything about it, but it looks a lot like Shirazz to me perhaps with a cascading habit (I think Shirazz is upright) not sure though.
    Can anyone enlighten me?
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  2. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    'Pink Passion' is not a named cultivar with which I am familiar. But there are many European cultivars with which I am unfamiliar
    There are too many "new" cultivars named locally and not registered which creates provenance confusion.
    I went out to look at my Shirazz/Geisha Gone Wild/Gwen's Rose Delight (3 names for the same plant!) after seeing your
    question and yours looks similar but also different which could well be the difference in microclimates, sun, soil etc etc.
    I suggest you ask Zensation about the name and origin - they hopefully will know.
    Regardless of its genetics, it is a beautiful pink variegate of which you should be proud and which hopefully will give you
    great joy. It is a beauty.
    By the way, I love your magnificent county of Somerset.
     
  3. D97x7

    D97x7 Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Thank you Katsura, it is a beautiful little tree I just couldn't resist when I came across it yesterday. Now I just need to find a suitable spot for it. Somerset is a nice place to live but as I'm only a couple of miles from the coast it can get pretty windy so finding the right spot can be a bit tricky but hopefully it will be fine, I've tried to grow a couple of Disectums without much success as the wind is to just much for them.
     
  4. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    Good luck.
    Wind is anathema to maples - I battle the wind in my front yard so I know.
    I wonder if the salt is also a bit of a culprit with your proximity to the ocean.
    I would think 'Pink Passion' would be sensitive to excess so I hope u can find a
    morning sun & less wind bit of shelter for the beauty.
     
  5. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    It is a pretty tree, and looks like Shirazz to me from photos, I don't yet grow that one. It's not listed in either the World Checklist or Japanese Maples 4th Ed., so perhaps they named it there. Esveld doesn't have it either.

    Certainly worth asking Zensation about.

    -E
     
  6. D97x7

    D97x7 Rising Contributor 10 Years

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  7. winterhaven

    winterhaven Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I'm not surprised to see a young, leggy plant appearing to weep. Give it time to catch up to all the fertilizer. And I, too, think your cultivar is the same or so similar it makes no difference. Although, I will say that the only one your plant can't be is a Shirazz as that name is trademarked.

    I have a "Geisha Gone Wild" and live waterfront in the Pacific Northwest. It's in a location near the water that can have gentle breezes but doesn't get buffeted by winds. It gets filtered morning light and then ambient light. It's thriving.
     
  8. mattlwfowler

    mattlwfowler Active Member Maple Society

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    Looks like Shirazz/Gwen's rose delight to me...either this sport of geisha is more common than we earlier thought or they must be trying to get out of paying the patent royalties. I am seeing too much of that these days. Nurseries are taking obviously distinct cultivars that are patented and slap a new name on it. No one seems to be regulating this mess. Before you know it you have 5 names for the same plant, and nobody knows what they are getting.
     
  9. amazingmaples

    amazingmaples Well-Known Member

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    I guess it seems like patents on a common reversion grow will lead to this delema. So now we have at least three known trees similar with different names. I am sure by next year matt is correct and there will be 5.

    I have not owned a Shirazz to know its habits but i have had a couple GGW and they seem to have a weeping growth habit. So far I have not planted mine in full sunlight but I do put Geisha into full sunlight and it does well.

    I have owned GGW for several years and have experenced no dieback. It seems to be a good strong tree, so far.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2011
  10. Houzi

    Houzi Active Member 10 Years

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    I had two 'Shirazz',at first they have a distinctly weeping look but to me looks a bit messy in this style.Luckily last summer,one put out immense growth and the branches then adopted upright stance,which I think suited it better.Sadly I lost that one this spring but luckily grafted it.Interestingly the graft so far looks like 'Geisha' with almost completely pale pink leaves....I like it and would like it to stay like this,but I doubt it.Young plants can take full sun here but the first set of leaves eventually crisp,but the later growth survives.An older plant would do OK.I've just seen 'Pink Passion' here and immediately thought of 'Shirazz'.....guess Matt's right,seems too much of a coincidence.
     
  11. mattlwfowler

    mattlwfowler Active Member Maple Society

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    I just find it highly unlikely that any of them arrived as seedlings...since they all appear to have that distinct flecking of green/purple in the cream/pink portions that is seen in Geisha. This is unusually rare amongst the already rare variegated maples.

    What are the chances that in several hundreds of years of selection (over literally millions of trees) you have one incredibly odd seedling arise (geisha). Then within a few years you have a sport from this that retains the basic leaf characteristic but with a distinctly different variegation. Now you supposedly have a couple of seedlings that turn out practically identical to said sport just a few years later. Statistically one in...billions? I vote that we have malpractice.

    As far as GGW vs Shirazz (Gwen's Rose Delight)...both seem very willowy and slightly weeping due to the incredibly long summer shoots that appear consistently in most growing conditions. However, both will eventually form an upright to semi upright tree eventually. I'm not quick to say that B&B nursery would change the name to avoid patent fees, but I can't easily believe that it arose as a seedling (as according to 4th edition Japanese Maples). Somebody is either lying or uninformed in this whole deal.

    As far as your Geisha-ish graft of Shirazz. I have seen Shirazz "revert" to both Geisha and to a common atropurpureum. Based on my own observations and guestimations, I would suspect that we could see Shirazz steadily shift towards one of these two types (especially when mature) similarly to the way Butterfly and other variegates have been known to do.
     
  12. amazingmaples

    amazingmaples Well-Known Member

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    if shirazz is a seedling then GGW is a completely different tree. its name tells where it came from.
     
  13. mattlwfowler

    mattlwfowler Active Member Maple Society

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    Actually it is claimed that GGW is a seedling..but I'm not buying that.
     
  14. amazingmaples

    amazingmaples Well-Known Member

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    I guess there is always a few mistakes in everything. As i mentioned, the name tells it all. These trees bring up the issues between the nursery business and the maple collectors.
    The nursery business is going to do what it wants just to keep its doors open. They are also providing items to a majority of the people who really could care less about a plant's name or its conformity to its true description so long as they like it and it is cheap.
    For me, a patient on a common reversion leads to issues similar to this but is not the sole issue since everyone in the world wants to find and name their own plant.
    I have to say that if i was looking through a wholesale nursery list of trees for my inventory and and I saw "Pink Passion" on the list, I would buy them since I know that their are plenty of people who would laugh at the story of the tree having two to five different names and they would gladly put the tree in their yard.
    .
     
  15. D97x7

    D97x7 Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    I feel quite guilty for having bought it now and thus giving support for what seems to be a less than respectable nursery. I assumed wrongly that it was a variety that I'd never heard of, mind you I'm no expert just mearly an amateur gardener who loves maples.
     
  16. amazingmaples

    amazingmaples Well-Known Member

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    no no do not feel that way. The most important part of gardening is to enjoy and have fun. Some of the cooliest plants in my garden are ones which I found in the bargin areas of nurseries and many of them are missing tags so there is no hope of finding out what variety they may be.

    If you are going to be exhibiting your garden to the maple experts it might matter.

    Now for me, i have had to take trees out of my inventory since they are not correct. Some of them where mislabeled others just did not meet their description. Pink Passion may fall into a mislabeled tree but since it is a different graft than Shirazz/Geisha Gone Wild/Gwen's Rose Delight it is different.

    Contrary to the maple expert rules there is now an Acer palmatum 'Pink Passion' on the market and that is the tree you have. There are truck loads of different trees on the market which do not meet the rules.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2011
  17. Houzi

    Houzi Active Member 10 Years

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    Here here...as long as you like it,it doesn't matter.It's still an outstanding plant and one of the few that really stand out in summer....no wonder everyone wants to sell it.I can see it being a very popular plant whatever you call it and being vigorous will please many first time buyers.
     
  18. D97x7

    D97x7 Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Thanks amazingmaples.
     
  19. mattlwfowler

    mattlwfowler Active Member Maple Society

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    Yes, I agree. When it is all said and done it will be a beautiful tree in your yard for you and others to admire. The name doesn't degrade the beauty or value of the tree in any way...in actuality I like the name of 'Pink Passion' far better than the other two in discussion.

    The issue I have is more with the confusion that multiple names causes amongst those of us enthusiasts, collectors, and nurseries that take pride in having them sorted out. As a collector it is somewhat irritating to receive maples that are incorrectly labeled just because I didn't get what I thought I was getting. Sometimes I order a tree and get something totally different that I already have. However, I can still stick it my collection and enjoy it for what it is...a nice maple that I might not have a name for. Or if I end up with duplicates, I can give one to a friend or family.

    However, as a small time grower it is very frustrating because I take extra care to ensure that my trees are what they say they are. I would say that almost 1/4 of the trees in my collection are either completely mislabeled, could be mislabeled, or there are multiple forms with the same name. I will not in good faith sell any of these mislabeled trees...but I can offer the trees with multiple forms if I'm careful to explain the distinction. It is true that most people would be happy with any beautiful maple regardless of whether it even had a name, but I hold myself accountable for my sake.
     
  20. amazingmaples

    amazingmaples Well-Known Member

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    I have found that I can only buy from less than a handfull of wholesellers and even their trees can cause a stir. When i started, I bought hundreds of trees on mail order, I have to say that was well over a 50% failure, it was more like 75% failure since 25% of the trees had horrible shape.

    I now pay the extra cost to get a good health tree with pretty much the correct growth and leaf.

    As for the dupicates, they do not bother me much since i do not worry about the cultivar count. I figure they are all apart the sales game, the same game which butchers up the english language to get your attention.

    The crime in it all is when you buy a plant which is suppose to do one thing and it does another.

    I would agree, acer palmatum "Pink Passion" does fit the tree well. Shirazz sounds cool also but as I figure who is going to grow it if they have to pay for something when they can go out and cut a piece off a geisha.

    I think this tree will do well on the market just like the other duplicates.
     
  21. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    I think Maple Society members would generally be just as enthusiastic about a beautiful tree whether it was named or not. Personally I grow lots of seedlings that are -- to my taste -- pretty interesting because they are variegated or otherwise not plain vanilla, but I either plant them or give them away, I've not yet had an interest in naming one. I love these plants for their beauty, not because they are "rare cultivars."

    Naming rules are from the International Cultivar Registration Authorities (ICRA) which is administrated by Peter Gregory for maples.

    My personal sense is that introducing additional cultivar names for identical plants is fraudulent, and the harm it causes to consumers is that some may pay for a plant in course of collecting that they already own. (This of course does not detract from the excellent plant itself, and I agree wholeheartedly that the OP has nothing at all to feel bad about: they should just enjoy the plant). If I buy a Ford, I want a Ford, not a Renault. :) That's why we have laws regulating consumer goods.

    -E
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2011
  22. amazingmaples

    amazingmaples Well-Known Member

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    excuse me I removed the word society from the post, for some reason the word was in my head when typing.
     
  23. amazingmaples

    amazingmaples Well-Known Member

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    I have a couple geisha in my garden,if you look at the bottom of the tree you can see this wonderful color and growing habit of this mutiply named tree.

    i would agree that if i buy tree "x" I want it to behave like tree "x".
     

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  24. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Thanks Amazing, I've edited my post as well. Now off for some repotting duties... (my daughter enjoys mowing the lawn, bless.)
     
  25. Romain01

    Romain01 Member Maple Society

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    Just a little update "pink passion" is not a cultivar, it real name is "Shirazz" ® (source Guy Maillot)
     

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