Vertrees' 2nd edition includes A. circinatum for comparative purposes. No mention of A. campestre noticed.
Kinda beating a dead horse here, but in Timber Press' Pocket Guide to Japanese Maples by J. D. Vertrees, copyright 2007, there is a section titled, "Other Acer Species and their Cultivars from Japan" beginning on page 191. The introductory text reads as follows: This chapter presents Japanese species and cultivars other than Acer palmatum... In this section of the book (that, please remember, is titled "JAPANESE MAPLES") there are 23 species discussed, highlighting notable cultivars of each. I do understand that referring to Acer species endemic to America or Europe as 'Japanese maples' is technically incorrect, but certain species and cultivars, as Vertrees puts it, "have been selected and grown by Japanese horticulturists for their special characteristics". Whether correct or not, many species other than palmatum are sold as Japanese maples; Acer circinatum 'Little Gem' is often lumped into this group for example. Apparently, the term "Japanese maple" has come to encompass a set of "special characteristics" that stretches a little beyond nomenclature. Whatever is okay with Vertrees is okay with me. I do understand the difference. I too have an IQ in the triple digits. I was simply trying to help a blogger in this forum understand the generality, and sometime misuse (if you will read my earlier post) of the term "Japanese maple". The blogger, named The Novice, I believe, was under the common misconception that his/her Acer palmatum was a "generic" or less valuable maple, or not a Japanese maple at all, because it is not a named cultivar. I was merely trying to be helpful. Gimme a little credit will ya? :) Can we stop with the spanking now?
Is the term "Japanese Maples" legit botanical nomenclature? Or have we a tempest in a teapot I believe, that in the horticultural vernacular, the meaning of "Japanese Maple" has changed over time. Today it seems the meaning is less precise than in the past. Whis4 following up on comment 17 ...what constitutes "Japanese Maples" under your typology?
The total of the introductory text reads as follows: This chapter presents Japanese species and cultivars other than Acer palmatum. It also includes non-Japanese species and cultivars, such as A.buergerianum and A.circinatum, which have been selected and grown by Japanese horticulturists for their special characteristics My comments were simply answering your question as to whether or not it would be appropriate to refer to these as 'Japanese maples' I made the point that it would not, because they are not Japanese maples There is little else to say .......
Whis4 are you saying that cults like A. buergerianum: 'Akebono', 'Kyu den', 'Mino yatsubusa','Naruto kaede' and 'Mitsuba kaede' would/should not be considered Japanese Maples? Curious about your reasoning on this. Is endemic to Japan your criteria for inclusion?
Vertrees (Second edition) describes the accepted definition of 'Japanese maples' as the term for the cultivars of Acer palmatum and Acer japonicum, and states quite clearly that these two species (and their subspecies and varieties) comprise the 'Japanese maples' of the nursery industry All others become 'Maples from Japan' It is notable that he doesn't even include varieties of Acer shirasawanum, although my memory tells me that these used to be considered as Japonicum in any event He makes the point that serious dendrologists would be inclined towards all species of the genus Acer which are endemic to Japan and portions of neighbouring regions Yes ... I believe that endemic to Japan is one important criteria to consider when referring to Japanese maples However, like Katie, I am more than able to accept that what is good enough for Vertreees is good enough for me For that reason I believe that the varieties mentioned by you should not be considered as 'Japanese maples' Katie ... your obvious boundless enthusiasm has been infectious and refreshing and has been most welcome in this forum. I have always enjoyed your posts. I hope sincerely that I have not offended you in any way by answering your question in what might have seemed like a curt manner. If I did, you have my sincere apologies.
Thank you for that very thoughtful concern, Whis. I am not offended in any way and thank you for the kind words about my participation here. I am enthusiastic about maples and think its fantastic that such a forum exists where I can chat with folks from all over the world! That is a very cool thing. I am certainly no expert and so only post in response where I may be able to shed some light on a novice or intermediate concern. I always try to state that I am no authority and merely share my opinions and those hard facts that I can locate in a book, or have experienced first hand. There are some experts posting here, (deserving of great respect of course don't get me wrong on that point!), that seem to love to pounce on such layperson responses and explanations, though they may soar right over the head of the initial poster. Knowing what it is like for the average gardener, it can be a bit intimidating in here, so, if I feel I have something to offer a beginner, I always try to tailor my response to their specific needs and understanding. At least my intentions are always good. It is difficult to read fully into some responses, but such is the nature of e-mail enviornments, or "computer mediated communication". I have felt "taken over a knee" once or twice in here, but I do usually attempt to clarify my thought at least. I certainly don't mind the lively banter though and always appreciate a different opinion (although I hardly ever feel the need to change my own mind :) hee hee ). I do appreciate the sentiment, Whis. Thank you for taking the time to share it. Friends? :)
Actually, only Maples that are palmatum, amoenum and matsumurae are the Japanese Maples in one sense, with the japonicums being the Full Moon Maples of Japan. At one time shirasawanum was considered to be a variety of japonicum and was written by Koidzumi and others as Acer japonicum var. shirasawanum. Some studies out of Japan considered shirasawanum a forma of japoncium until later on when Europe considered shirasawanum to be its own species. I learned of the golden Shirasawa Maple in an above light as when a couple of golden forms of Japonicum aureum were nestled in a few collections among imported Shirasawanum aureum from Holland in that the aureum forms could be distinguished by their leaf shapes, lobe counts and how the side lobes were held either exposing a triangular shape cut out area where the petiole attaches to the leaf or this attachment point is covered over by the side lobes. Another thing that can separate the two forms is that when we look at the side lobes of the shirasawanum if we draw an imaginary line from the top of the highest point on one side lobe we can imagine a horizontal straight line across to the other side lobe on the other side of the petiole. We cannot do this with a japonicum, although an old form of the forma macrophyllum Maple, not to be confused or intermixed with the Shirasawanum microphyllum plant (Delendick, 1984), can come close but still the side lobes can cover over the petiole. In another sense I agree that all Maples indigenous to Japan, prior to their more recent acquisition by China and Korea, can be called Japanese Maples as well and then we can include the sieboldianum and buergerianum in with the shirasawanum, palmatum and the japonicums as well as a few others. The mentality of some of the members of another online Maple forum have infiltrated this forum and that altruism does detract from the overall benefit for some of the newer members in this forum. I like how the Citrus forum handles things a lot better for people asking newbie type questions about their Citrus. Then again some of those questions can be very difficult at times to answer as several times there is no clear cut answer as to why a tree drops its leaves but usually is a series of cultural factors that may have caused them to drop off early. We have some of the same scenarios at times with our Maples as well, usually with container grown plants but in ground plants are not immune to premature leaf loss during the growing season either. It seems the original Maple which constitutes the thread title has been overlooked. The nana form of atropurpureum was available in retail nurseries as far back as the early 70's. Today someone would probably want to give it a second or a new name if they had one. My third Maple back when I was in my latter days of high school was an Atropurureum nana purchased at a local retail nursery. Technically, this form left on its own roots will remain a dwarf form plant (6 feet tall or less, seldom is over 4 1/2 feet tall). After repeated and continual grafting this Maple can and did become a semi-dwarf in size for others later on (6-12 feet tall). "Nana" can make a fine landscape plant for around here given afternoon sun and wind protection in soils that are not alkaline. Saline soils are okay for it but soils with residual salts will make this Maple look rather unsightly with sunburned holes and later on wind tattered areas in the lobes as soon as the outside temperatures get over and are sustained at 90 degrees in lots of sun when grown in the Central Valley. Then again we can have that same problem with a lot of red Maples grown around here but is consistent with all members of the Nomura, Shojo, Nigrum, Rubrum and Atropurpureum group Maples that we have around here when given too much direct sun, exposed to afternoon winds and/or are planted in alkaline soils. It can be argued that neither the old standard Bloodgood (a blood-red Maple in the Spring, is not a black-red or a purple-red like many plants being sold worldwide as Bloodgood now are, nor is Bloodgood a two-color Maple in that the newer flushes of Spring growth are a different color than the older Spring growth was) and the old Atropurpureum nana are an atropurpureum. Atropurpureum nana is a member of the Nomura group of reds by the leaf sizes and leaf shapes, Spring leaf color, Summer leaf coloring and the Fall leaf color. More than the Atropurpureum group of reds will throw out a pubescence in the Spring emergence, some are silvery, some are white and some throw out hairs instead of the early pubescence on the topsides of the newly emerging leaves. People have to see a lot of these plants to know how the above groups of reds correspond to a particular plant and if it makes a certain someone feel better, none of us are experts with the red groups of Japanese Maples. People have seen the hairs on their Maples before but did not know which red group those hairs are consistent with as opposed to another red group that may have a silvery pubescence instead. We also have some green Maples that will show pubescence in the Spring and other green Maples that will have the hairs on the surface of the leaves. Some of the variegated forms can also have short lived hairs on the petioles before the leaves have fully expanded. One of the green palmates that will is Tsuma gaki, as is shown in a photo in another online Maple forum. Jim
