Acer 'Orido Nishiki' Question

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Harry Homeowner, Apr 20, 2009.

  1. Harry Homeowner

    Harry Homeowner Active Member

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    I have a small Acer 'Orido Nishiki' about 3' tall and I bought it last fall and had a questions. It has yet to show any signs of breaking dormancy - is it known to be later than others?

    Acer 'Waterfall' is nearly 100% leafed out.
    Acer 'Aureum' just started about a week ago.
    Acer 'Sharps Pygmy' same as Aureum about a week.

    I did the finger nail test and its green. What's everyone else's like??

    Am I being impatient?
     
  2. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    People do have failing Japanese maples not leaf out but remain green under the bark for a time. I've seen and heard about this multiple times. Presumably such specimens do dry up and become brittle later.

    Japanese maple cultivars are subject to various misfortunes; this forms the basis for abundant internet queries.
     
  3. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    It is not a late leafer. Sorry but, from the information and from your geographical location, it is probably dead. Depending on where you bought it, you may go back and ask for a replacement.

    Gomero
     
  4. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I think the proper name is Orido no nishiki or Oridono Nishiki ( I have seen both)
    I wouldn't panic too soon. Can you let us see a close up pic of the buds? Are they shrivelled? or is the wood dead? Don't forget that these trees have a second set of buds if the first set get frosted
     
  5. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    The checklist has Oridono nishiki from the list of 1882, and Orido-no-nishiki from Nakajima, 1903.

    Orido nishiki is listed as a synonym from Vertrees.

    Probably just differences in translating the Japanese into western characters, I'd imagine they are the same. All I know is I need to plant this one!

    For the OP, I'd not give up quite yet either, but the clock is certainly ticking. Sorry.

    -E
     
  6. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I just bought this one last year and it is only just starting to bud out now
    It certainly was impressive at the end of last year
     
  7. Poetry to Burn

    Poetry to Burn Active Member

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    I think there is a post a while back where Mr. Shep mentions that orido and oridono are different plants. I grow 'Oridono nishiki' it is fully leafed out here in Philly.

    This year i lost a 4-5 year 'Orangeola' it had a 5Gal pot FULL of roots and was a dud in Spring.It did show green in the cambium scratch test. I stuck it in the ground in my Jersey garden in case it's a zombie. Not sure why it passed. The house sparrows ate every single bud on the tree but they did that to about a dozen others and 'Orangeola' and 'Matsuyoi' are the only casualties.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2009
  8. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Vertrees (2nd Ed) calls the plant 'Orido nishiki',
    Vertrees Pocket Guide calls it 'Oridono nishiki'
    Maples for Gardens (Van Gelderen) calls it 'Oridono nishiki' with a synonym of 'Orido nishiki'
    Book for Maples (Masayoshi Yano) describes it as 'Oridono nishiki' from the list of 1882 and as 'Orido nishiki' from the list 0f 1911
    I don't think there is any doubt that it is the same plant
     
  9. Poetry to Burn

    Poetry to Burn Active Member

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    Sam,

    They may well be synonymous but I don't think those citations provide conclusive confirmation.

    I added the link to Mr. Shep's post above.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2009
  10. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    It appears to me Mr Shep has often been talking about different clones of the same cultivar, rather than different cultivars. That's why he may sometimes use the phrase "form of", another way of saying clone - when talked about grafted plants.

    Spelling variations he mentions would often be mistakes that also happened to be used for clones differing from other clones being traded under the correct or preferred spelling.

    Growers sometimes introduce plants of independent origin under names of existing introductions. Older cultivars may come to consist of multiple different clones in time.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2009
  11. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    'Conclusive' I don't claim, but the references are certainly persuasive to myself. Mr Shep may well have a differing opinion, but is is hardly expressed in the above post, and I have not heard any serious argument to convince me otherwise
     
  12. Poetry to Burn

    Poetry to Burn Active Member

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    I agree the references are persuasive.
    However spelling variations, forms of, transliterations and other variables primarily vulgar consumerism keep the whole thing thoroughly muddled. <--echoing Mr. Shep's point.

    The tree I grow was labeled 'Oridono nishiki'. It's an early leafer with good vigor and lots of pink bark coloration. It is not a reliable producer of the characteristic variegation. The leaf colors and fert don't seem correlated.
     
  13. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I couldn't agree more :)
     
  14. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    In simple terms, one cultivar is a member
    of the Versicolor group and the other is
    a variant form of Waka momiji variegated.

    The old Yokohama nursery Oridono nishiki
    produces a Fu and I have not seen this
    ever in the Maples predominately sold as
    Orido nishiki or Oridono nishiki in the US.
    So my point has been all along that the
    Oridono nishiki that has been and is being
    sold by nurseries is not the same plant as
    our old Maple from Japan. Yes, indeed Ron,
    Orido nishiki comes in more than one form,
    The golden striped form and the pink stripe.
    A third form has been seen around with the
    golden stripe having a pink center. It is this
    Maple that comes the closest to the Maples
    of the World
    book description of Oridono
    nishiki. Unfortunately this Maple has been
    sold in the US since the mid to late 80’s as
    Orido nishiki. As a matter of fact my Maple
    was sold to me as Karasugawa - not even
    close to being a Karasugawa but I knew it
    when I bought it. The Maple I have it setting
    next to is a golden striped Orido nishiki that
    I bought from Berkeley Hort in the company
    of Don Keim that also bought this Maple for
    his collection. So, in effect I’ve owned three
    of the four Maples presented in this note and
    have access to the fourth.

    Jim
     
  15. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I am not in the least surprised to hear that the maples predominately being sold in the States as one or the other are not the same as 'our old maple from Japan' as you call it
    It is clear from older posts here over the years that it has become an established practice in the States to sell seedlings as the named plant. It doesn't take too long for variations to appear in those circumstances. Whether it is then correct to name those variants with a simple change in spelling from the original, and claim them to be a different cultivar is quite amazing to say the least.
     
  16. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Selling independent introductions under an existing cultivar name is hardly a peculiarity of North American nurseries.
     
  17. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    hehehe
    I am not suggesting that it is Ron. God forbid !!!
    It seems, however, to have been more prevalent over with you than over here. No doubt our unscrupulous European dealers are catching up fast however.
    Small wonder enthusiasts like ourselves find great difficulty in identifying plants nowadays. It has become quite an impossibility in fact.
     
  18. Tony416

    Tony416 Member

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    Mine is also about 3 feet tall, planted 1.5 years ago. It has not budded out yet, but a scratch test reveals green, alive-looking tissue under the bark. I'm not going to give up yet.
     
  19. STi

    STi Active Member

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    I'm in same zone as you and mine has started leafing.
     
  20. Harry Homeowner

    Harry Homeowner Active Member

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    That is not good to hear (for me at least) if you are in CT and have started leafing out I feel mine should have as well.

    Ron, I am beginning to think you are right.

    I will keep hope for a little longer. I put some Dried Blood down today to see if I can kick start it so ill wait and see.

    A hopeful gardener.
     
  21. STi

    STi Active Member

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    I'm Actually in Rhode Island and the 1st set of leaves are out...My Ukigumo and Shin deshojo are not out yet. I can see the red buds starting on the deshojo but worried about my Ukigumo.

    All my potted trees were outside this winter.
     
  22. Tony416

    Tony416 Member

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    Ewww... well it's been about 2 weeks and the top of my Orido is not leafing out, but down low, closer to the base, it appears to have sent out new growth. I can only assume the top has bit the dust. Maybe I can salvage the bottom. The leaves do appear to have a pinkish color and it looks like it leafed out just above the graft, but it is pretty low on the tree now. Any other suggestions to encourage this little guy?
     
  23. STi

    STi Active Member

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    I would cut it back but you could wait and see if more leaf out..It was so late that maybe the rest might get stimulated? Do the top branches look dead? My Ukigumo has not leafed out and i think it's dead..This is my 2nd one. I don't think they like the north east.
     
  24. Tony416

    Tony416 Member

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    I think I will have to cut it back, but I think I'll wait a bit longer. One can always hope. Sorry to hear about your Ukigumo :(
     
  25. paxi

    paxi Active Member

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    I planted two ukigumo last fall. Same size, same nursery, same (I thought) soil conditions. One is thriving and the other did not show a hint of leafing out. There is clearly a variable that I am missing
     

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