Hello, I wish to know if Amur Maple would be fine planting in full sun with frequent watering in my zone 9.
It is a very tough maple. My guess is it will do fine. Once established you may not even need to water all that much. I'd certainly give it a try, although of course there are no guarantees. Good luck, and let us know how it turns out. -E
I would think in Spain, it would be better with light overhead shade. Yes it is tough, but it is a species adapted to cold climates, not so much to heat. It does well with some shade here too.
Thanks for your replies. I think I'll try. I am also going to plant another Amur Maple almost in the shade. I hope both do fine. Do you know other small maples that takes the sun well?
A. granatense is known as A. opalus ssp. hispanicum in the current literature. (Not meaning to suggest A. granatense is not an acceptable synonym, just to make ID easier.) I'd wager A. hyrcanum (also of the Monspessulana series) would work, too. I have A. discolor (seed grown) in full sun here, but it is listed as going to zone 9. Seems to like the Norman sun, anyway... Also A. truncatum is known to do well in hot Texas climates, so that would be a good bet, and a very lovely tree it is. I think A. buergerianum would work but only in partial shade. -E
Only among those mesmerised by van Gelderen's wholesale maple-lumping agenda! Most of the Spanish literature refers to it as a distinct species. (and I bet you'd also get far more google hits for "Acer ginnala" than you would for vG's "Acer tataricum subsp. ginnala" :-).
Hi if you land is coverd to the hot wind no problem(if there are hot wind the leaves in summer are burned) i have many acer in open sun like Olivaceum,Palmatum Fire Glow,Platanoides Crimson King,Capillipes, i use pine bark around trunk and water every 2/3 days in summer .alex
Well, indeed. In this case, isn't the attribution to Murray, anyway? And indeed the "lumpy" taxonomy (if you wish) is owed to de Jong? :) Interesting JGS Harris agrees with you on A. granatense. (As well, needless to say, as A. ginnala.) A little surprising to me as the plant is obscure, described by van Gelderen as not being in cultivation. Seriously, I don't think anyone is mesmerized, and there are many disagreements with Dr. de Jong among experts. But for the moment it is the accepted state of the literature... -E
Hola Gomero, yo soy de Madrid pero tengo una finca en Extremadura donde suelo plantar distintas especies de árboles. Me registré en este foro al ver que habÃa gente muy entendida en el tema de los arces (maples), ya que en las páginas web españolas la información es normalmente muy limitada. Thanks all you for the suggestions!
Yep, the infamous 'Dr.' Edward Murray . . . . ever seen any of his publications?? Go to a good botanical library, dig out the journal Kalmia (sole author, Edward Murray; editor, Edward Murray, publisher, Edward Murray) and have a good laugh. The whole thing consists of lengthy lists of new subspecific combinations, almost entirely without any justifications given at all. Here's a scan of a sample page . . . I think I can do this under 'fair use' rationale in copyright law for discussion purposes.
Fascinating, thanks Michael! I've never seen a copy of the "renowned" Kalmia. At least you can say each issue is "peer reviewed..." :) Have you seen a copy of Murray's classification? I guess this was a thesis submission, perhaps not accepted? I wonder if anyone knows where I might get hold of such an item... certainly would be a curiosity, at least. Whatever happened to Murray?
Hi Emery, I've not seen Murray's Acer classification; both Kew and Edinburgh RBG only have a partial run of Kalmia, not including the first few volumes where it was published. No idea what happened to him after 1984, Kalmia ceased publication then with vol. 14, maybe someone poured glue in his typewriter or something. One prominent botanist I know compared Murray to the infinite number of monkeys eventually typing all the works of Shakespeare . . . type enough random new combinations, and one or two of them will eventually hit home and attach his name to posterity. The abstracts and first pages of these articles rather suggest someone else giving him short shrift, too . . . http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0007-196X%28197810%2F12%2930%3A4%3C473%3AAC%28ANN%3E2.0.CO%3B2-3&size=LARGE&origin=JSTOR-enlargePage http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=00....0.CO;2-C&size=LARGE&origin=JSTOR-enlargePage
Yes Alex, you are right, but I had thougth of that! Probably next winter I will plant an acer campestre as a patio tree. They are very drought tolerance and have a late yellow fall color, isn't it so?
En Extremadura puedes plantar sin problema el A. Ginnala (o para ser mas preciso, A. tataricum ssp. ginnala). Tendras que regarlo al menos 2 veces por semana los 2-3 primeros años, luego podra aguantar bien un mes sin agua. Confirmo el consejo sobre el A. truncatum. Es un arce chino muy resistente a todo, mas que el ginnala, es un arbol grande que puede llegar a 10-12 m, los colores en primavera y otoño son muy bonitos. Si estas en Caceres en zona alta podrias tambien intentar uno de piel de serpiente como el A. davidii. Pregunta mas si te hace falta Gomero
o para ser menos exacto . . . ;-) There is a 3,000km gap between the ranges of Acer tataricum and Acer ginnala, and they are very distinct from each other, with no intergradation. I cannot accept the one being a subspecies of the other!
And how about Acer buergeranum? Compared to some of the Maples already mentioned for a zone 9, a Japanese form buergerianum, not as true for the "Chinese" forms however, would not be a problem at all. Can grow in full sun here in the San Joaquin and Central Valleys even in landscapes without afternoon shade. What a Trident Maple will not like is salt buildup in a soil. Salt absorption by the roots can cause leaf issues later in that we can see salt damage that most people would equate as being sun damage. It is true that the accumulation of salts in the plant does have an impact on the amount of direct sunlight the leaves can handle without burning but in most areas around here, even when planted in alkaline soils, we do not see much leaf desiccation from the Trident Maples. It is rare to see a non variegated form leaf turn color, shrivel up and fall off the tree for reasons other than lack of water, unlike several of the japonicum, palmatum and shirasawanum that are or can be fussier plants to grow and do experience their share of leaf desiccation issues just from warm or cold winds, let alone from direct sun or salt buildup. Amur Maples will really balk at being planted in alkaline soils, so much so it is a don't do it. Stunted growth is what we expect to see around here with lots of leaf damage. We are a little too warm here where I am for them during the Summer months. Has to have afternoon protection otherwise they just do not grow well here at all. Can grow much better in the foothills with elevations around 1,000-2,500 feet in full sun but again they will want more of a neutral to acid soil to really prosper. The Amur Maples do well when they are young but when they get up to about 7 years old they start to falter here. Even when grown in Placerville, they do not get up to 20 years old often enough to count on it happening. Jim
Re: A question about A. Ginnala RE: There is a 3,000km gap between the ranges of Acer tataricum and Acer ginnala, and they are very distinct from each other, with no intergradation. I cannot accept the one being a subspecies of the other! I'm sympathetic to this view just because it touches on something that's bugged me here on the maple forum. It seems to me there are two tendencies. One is to obliterate species designations and classify things as subspecies or varities. And on the other hand there is a tendency to point out very minor differences and say that a plant deserves species status. Without endorsing one or the other, I think taxonomists should adopt an English/American legal principle, stare decisis. It means, 'let the decision stand'. It's one of the fundamental common law principles. In other words, if the entire world has been using a designation for some time, you need a really good reason to change it. And the longer that designation has been used, the more reluctant we should be to use a different one. Sure, it's not perfect, but constantly changing what the 'authoritative' classification is, is confusing and pedantic.
Interesting thought! It might stifle research a bit; I think one needs to be ready to change when the evidence is strong, but in cases like the Acer ginnala submergence, it doesn't appear to be.
Gomero: muchas gracias por la información. Lo cierto es que me encantarÃa probar con el Acer truncatum, pero es un árbol muy difÃcil de conseguir en España. He buscado en varios viveros y ninguno lo tiene. Mr.shep: thanks for your coments about Amur Maple and Trident Maple. Fortunately, the place where they will grow are far enough to the sea. It has also an acidic soil, good for maples. You said Amur Maple is less tolerance to scorch in summer than Trident Maple, so I may will be planting it in a more shaded location. My doubt is if planting these maples in a place with part sun in summer, but almost totally shade from automne, would impoverish the fall color change.
Wetcloud if you want acer truncatum the nursery www.esveld .nl have in list this acer and is ok for delivery in U.E. I received acer and more in my country
