where can I buy roses

Discussion in 'Rosa (roses)' started by ericpg, Aug 31, 2009.

  1. ericpg

    ericpg Member

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    I buy roses from GardenWorks (Vancouveer Lower Mainland).

    I also found an online store called Pickering Nurseries in Ontario. Are there any other local or online stores where I can buy roses?

    I am interested to buy Chihuly, Intuition, Love & peace, Tequila Sunrise and Voodoo, etc.
     
  2. Ron B

    Ron B Esteemed Contributor 10 Years of Activity

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    What would limit your selection now would be the timing, although fall should be best for hardy roses (same as other hardy shrubs) the custom is to plant at end of winter and in spring. Late winter is when most local plant outlets, even drug stores and supermarkets with plant departments will offer them.
     
  3. valleygardener

    valleygardener Active Member

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    The best place to purchase your bare root plants - either fall or spring, is Pickering Nurseries or Palatine Nursery in Ontario. You can order online and have them delivered to your home. Our Rose society has been ordering roses from Pickering Nurseries for more than 20 years and we highly recommend them. Sometimes, depending on their more northerly climate, the plants can be on the small side, but they will grow the way they should and reach maturity by the third year. It's important for us in the lower mainland to purchase roses on "multiflora" root stock as they are best suited to our wet and acid soil conditions. Unfortunately, the local nurseries don't carry roses on this preferred root stock but bring them in from the U.S. on Dr. Huey rootstock. Others may not agree, but it has proven true for long time rose growers and especially those who have invested in a large rose garden. Roses are wonderful garden plants, but unfortunately a lot of misinformation is distributed which tends to discourage novice growers.

    If you order from Palatine, your plants will be much larger because of where they are grown. And, not to say they are not great plants because they are, however, bigger is not always better. Fall is a very good time to plant in BC lower mainland because they have time over winter to establish roots which means they will be pretty much established by spring. It is important to plant them properly though and be sure to hill the plants up to preserve moisture and help to winter protect. This may be the perfect year for planting roses with the rosy outlook of a milder winter - Lets Hope!!

    Good luck with your search for roses!
     
  4. ericpg

    ericpg Member

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    Thanks for the information.
     
  5. Ron B

    Ron B Esteemed Contributor 10 Years of Activity

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    The value of fall planting is the root growth that occurs in fall, after planting. This is elongation of existing, intact roots, as will be found on well-established, mostly or entirely undisturbed potted stock. There is minimal, perhaps little growth of roots during winter. Bare-rooted stock that has been through a commercial digging, storage and shipping process has lost nearly all of its fine roots and will not have much, if any significant root activity until new shoot growth starts in spring - at which time a bunch of new roots are generated.

    I actually had a pretty much total loss (severe die-back) of a mass planting of bare-rooted but otherwise very hardy 'Europeana' received through the mail and installed in Everett, WA (USDA 8) during November 1985 - just in time for the early Arctic blast that came that year. The family I was working for had seen this cultivar on German freeways and made a special large, terraced planter in which to feature dozens of plants. It was my idea to receive them in the fall instead of the customary late winter/early spring shipping time, so when the fall planting failed due to the unusual early cold I looked like I was full of it.

    Two relevant additional factors were that when I went to plant it turned out many of the cells were too shallow, resulting in the grafts being near or above the soil surface. And I also think no mulch was present when the cold arrived very soon after planting. Grafted roses are vulnerable to cold at the graft union. Bare-rooted stock is essentially a cutting until new roots appear in spring, therefore requiring more protection than usual until new roots are generated.

    I was told later the supplier was actually talked into issuing a credit, this acceptance of responsibility for a situation that was not really their fault being based on the notion that it was the grower's idea for the plants to be accepted by the customer in fall instead of spring.

    'Dr Huey' that have replaced failed scions are very common on properties here. Sometimes part of the scion is still present, often only the rootstock remains. I suspect in many instances of the latter situation the scion froze off at the graft union during a colder winter, the union having been above the soil line. Many modern roses are damaged during those years or in those locations here when it gets below 10 degrees F.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2009
  6. valleygardener

    valleygardener Active Member

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    It sounds like you did have a very bad experience with bare root planting. Perhaps the difference is that our hardier Canadian Roses are propagated and grown in a colder climate, as opposed to "California" where the sun shines 10 months of the year.

    I have been growing roses for more than 30 years in British Columbia, through all the ups and downs that Mother nature can throw at us. I currently have 800 roses in my own garden and planted and maintain a small "City" public rose garden of over 700. In all those years, we have been planting roses received by mail in the fall - usually mid November. Even when there was snow on the ground. Of course if the ground was frozen, the plants had to be kept frost free for a day or two. We have suffered only minimal losses, but we prune the new bare root plants back to about 6 inches from the crown, cut an inch or so off all the roots and prune out any stubs etc leaving a clean tidy plant. And, after planting they are always very well mulched up over the canes so that only the tips of the canes are visible. Last November we renovated some old rose beds of more than 20 years and replaced 120 roses. Of course at the time we were unaware that we would experience one of the worst winters in recent memory. We lost 3 plants of 'Neptune' a mauve hybrid tea. Not bad out of 120, don't you think?

    I have also grown roses on just about every root stock available, except 'Fortuniana' popular in Australia and Florida and possibly many other very warm climates. We have also imported roses from the U.K., France, and Germany, and what we have found is that besides 'Multiflora', the European root stocks do well here too - although 'Canina' suckers more than 'Multiflora'. Root stock from the U.K.( Laxa) is another root stock we are happy to plant here.

    Another observation we have made over the years is that fall planted roses are far and away further ahead of spring planted roses. This is not to say we have not planted in spring - we have and continue to do so, but the majority are fall planted. We feel that they are just as well off in our garden under a comfy blanket over winter as they are in the growers storage sheds.

    Your climate is so similar to ours, I'm very surprised you feel the way you do. Hopefully, you'll give it another try using some of our "wonderful" multiflora root stock!

    All the best..........
     
  7. ericpg

    ericpg Member

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    Valleygardener,
    I am going to order 15 roses as you recommended, would you give more detail about how to plant bare root roses in fall? I live in B.C.
    Details like how deep I should plant it, what kind of mulch i should use...etc, (this is my first time, more detail information would help).
    I just finished preparing my rose bed. Mushroom manure and Garden soil(both from GardenWorks) have been added.

    Thanks
    Eric
     
  8. valleygardener

    valleygardener Active Member

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    Eric,

    You will receive planting instructions with your order if you purchase roses from Pickering Nurseries. You may wish to also check out the Rose Society's web site http://www.fprosesociety.org where there is lots of information on preparation of beds, planting etc. Sorry I usually just lurk and I'm not sure how to include a link.
    good luck with your roses.
     
  9. ericpg

    ericpg Member

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    Thank you very much.
     
  10. Ron B

    Ron B Esteemed Contributor 10 Years of Activity

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    >Perhaps the difference is that our hardier Canadian Roses are propagated and grown in a colder climate, as opposed to "California" where the sun shines 10 months of the year<

    Hardiness is genetic. What variety is chosen determines where it can be grown, not where the stock was produced. The only affect stock being grown in southerly areas has on northern performance is when it is shipped up in an advanced state of development, due to the earlier springs in California or Texas, and then gets nipped by frost or is otherwise adversely impacted by the sudden change in seasonal conditions. This is a temporary situation, that passes as soon as the plants get in sync with the new location.

    It seems the Europeana may have come from Ontario, but I don't remember for sure.
     
  11. Ron B

    Ron B Esteemed Contributor 10 Years of Activity

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    From page at the Fraser Rose Society site linked to above:

    "If your garden consists of rocks and sand, you will have to dig out the bed and fill it almost completely with amended soil from elsewhere. It is possible to purchase a good "lawn & garden" mix to fill garden beds, but it is necessary to shop around and make sure what you're getting is satisfactory to grow plants.
    ( keep in mind that roses do best in a soil pH of between 6-7 ). Once your rose beds are complete, you'll want to be sure you have all the necessary material set aside for planting time. Since organic matter is extremely important for the best plant growth, you will want to set aside moist peat moss mixed with good garden soil as a planting mixture where it will be readily available when you are ready to plant. A good planting mix would be two thirds garden loam and one third peat moss by volume. Lacking good garden loam, mushroom compost or your own garden compost would do as well. Super phosphate or bone meal will be required as this is the only fertilizer used in the planting hole other than alfalfa meal or pellets which many rose growers have used in the last few years. Alfalfa contains a hormone which is beneficial to good growth"

    Much of the above excerpt is erroneous and obsolete. Amending of planting holes was first noticed in an organized study environment to be counterproductive during 1969. That's 40 years ago! For modern information about planting and related matters, visit the site linked to below - starting with this page.

    http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda chalker-scott/FactSheets/Planting fact sheet.pdf
     
  12. valleygardener

    valleygardener Active Member

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    Ron,

    It's perfectly obvious that neither you or Linda chalker are rose gardeners! What I have had to say comes directly from the horse's mouth. Check out the web site of any rose propagator and you will find the correct way to amend soil and plant roses. http://www.pickeringnurseries.com/planting.htm. Linda Chalker is, I'm sure referring to trees, not rose trees. You are obviously very knowlegeable about many things, just not growing roses. However, a picture of your rose garden would certainly tell the story! There's a huge difference between growing modern roses and some of the species or old timers. Some classes of Old Garden Roses will survive on lean soil, but modern roses being the premadonna's they are will sulk like crazy if you don't treat them as Royalty. Sorry to disagree with you, but it's perfectly obvious that I'm wasting my time trying to convince a closed mind. When I tried to grow roses as you suggest, they failed miserably. If we have accomplished only one thing here, it is that we have given food for thought.

    Call me an old fashioned gal!
     
  13. soccerdad

    soccerdad Active Member 10 Years of Activity

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    I am amazed that no one has mentioned select roses in Langley - www.selectroses.ca. I have always thought they were regarded as BC's premiere rose supplier.
     
  14. valleygardener

    valleygardener Active Member

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    Their web site says they are closed until next spring. And, as far as I know they do not bud graft roses, but purchase them from another supplier. Are the rose fields in Langley?
     
  15. soccerdad

    soccerdad Active Member 10 Years of Activity

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    Correct

    I thought otherwise, but I could well be wrong.

    Correct
     
  16. 1950Greg

    1950Greg Active Member

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    Brad Jalbert of Select roses is also a breeder of roses and yes there nursery is in Langley at 22771 38th ave. If you are out this way drop into Cedar Rim nurseries on Glover road in Langley they have a some what good seletion of roses and a large selection of other plant material.
     
  17. Ron B

    Ron B Esteemed Contributor 10 Years of Activity

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    "Research findings and new technology are slow to be incorporated into nursery and landscape practices. Tradition is important and has a distinct place in our society, however, blind allegiance to tradition stymies progress. In 1968, a study was begun to determine the 'optimum' amount of amendments to use in the planting hole since recommendations varied from 5% to 50% by volume. The optimum amount turned out to be none. The findings were such a contrast to tradition, the question arose, 'If tradition was in error regarding soil amendments, what about other practices?' This has led to numerous studies relative to reducing stress and accelerating growth of landscape plants"

    --Carl E. Whitcomb, Establishment and Maintenance of Landscape Plants (1987 (1991), Lacebark Inc., Stillwater)

    The drawbacks to liberal amending of planting hole back-fill are due to physics and are not affected by what kind of plant is being installed. If there is differently textured soil nearby, how water moves into and out of the amended planting hole it surrounds (or small or narrow bed it borders) will be affected.

    "Use no soil amendments except in very specific conditions of raised or amended beds for plants with very limited root systems. If the existing soil is very poor, remove and replace with good field soil or place at least six inches of good field soil on the surface. However, you should match soil types as backfilling with a good sandy loam in a heavy clay will serve as a collection point for water and the roots will suffocate. Soil amendments in a small planting hole do not assist plant establishment and growth. It is better to use the amendments as mulch. The only exception is where the entire plant root zone for many years can be amended"

    --Same

    Top (or root) pruning at planting time reduces subsequent growth, until the plant recovers from the pruning. Practitioners of bonsai have used this fact for hundreds of years to dwarf the tops of their plants. Whacking back the tops and roots of roses when potting them at garden centers is probably advantageous as it keeps the specimens smaller than they might be otherwise. Even then more vigorous forms such as climbers may become a nuisance in a retail sales yard if not sold before summer, their prickly canes growing well beyond the space allotted to them at first.

    Some time ago the Royal National Rose Society started a trial to study the affects of non-selective winter pruning of bush roses versus the long-advocated selective pruning. It was found that cutting off all the stems at the same height, in a sort of hedging style of pruning, without "opening up the center" and making other thinning cuts resulted in more flowers the following season. This would be due to the greater total volume of stem tissue being retained by the set of test subjects being given the non-selective pruning.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2009
  18. valleygardener

    valleygardener Active Member

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    Generally, rose growers do not amend holes, instead they dig a "bed" so that far reaching roots of roses have room to roam. I get what you have copied from research Ron, but in practice it just doesn't work. Check out any Rose Society across North America, Europe, Australia, New Zealand etc. Basically around the world where different root stocks are employed, they all espouse enriching beds where roses will reside.

    Research is a wonderful thing, but I will take advice from practical experience over research every time - even when it does not apply to plants!

    I have read many of the articles you are referring to, and have to wonder how they were carried out and for how long. Many years ago we stopped amending holes for many trees and plants, unfortunately it failed miserably when it came to roses. Havng said that, we have a number of roses growing in trees which recieve neither fertilizer, amendements or artificial water and they do fine, but these are very close to species, not modern roses that we expect armfuls of perfect blooms from on a repeat basis.

    The only reason I answered this thread is that it iritates me when new would be rose growers are given wrong advice from well meaning individuals, such as yourself. I know you mean well, Ron, and I'm not trying to belittle you in any way. I know you know your stuff! But, please grow a large bed of roses for several years before you instruct beginners on how to grow (Modern) roses.

    I now understand why your planting of 'Europeana' failed.
    enuf said!!
     
  19. ericpg

    ericpg Member

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    Thank you for trying to help, but I've already made a rose bed.
    I guess my question has been answered. Thank you for your help.
     

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