Plants on the Police Blotter!

Discussion in 'Conversations' started by Barbara Lloyd, Sep 21, 2009.

  1. Barbara Lloyd

    Barbara Lloyd Well-Known Member

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    "Every few years a new 'wonder' drug promises great experiences with very little said about the harmful effects." Salvia divinorum is this years new threat. It's use is being monitored and may be added to the list of of illegal drugs as defined by the US's Controlled Substances Act.

    JR. & High School age kids are whispering about it behind adult's back and the police are getting concerned.

    This is part of a pamphlet I picked up at the local Police Dept. The remainder of the pamphlet can be seen and read on this pdf link,

    [PDF] Don't stay in the dark. Get In the Know! More Hallucinogen HypeFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
    many are getting hurt. More About Salvia www.intheknowzone.com/salvia/what.html ... www.intheknowzone.com/salvia/chemistry.html. Long-term Effects of Salvia ...
    www.syndistar.com/product_media/pdfs/pbda123.pdf - Similar

    It is a blue folder put out by Fox Pro Media. Inc @ foxpromedia.com product #PB-DA123
    It also says it can not be copied so please try the above addresses and read it!
    barb
     
  2. The Hollyberry Lady

    The Hollyberry Lady New Member

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    Pretty scary!


    : O


    Thanks for posting the links, Barbara.


    : )
     
  3. Hello, first off I want to let you know that I am the President of an Ethnobotanical company, this is in no way spam, I will not mention the company name nor will I post any links.

    I wanted to clear up some things here if you don't mind... We sell many different shamanic botanicals known as "Entheogens" which translates to "finding God within" and Salvia divinorum is one of those. What the media and government are spreading, are absolute lies. Many studies have been done on the age groups of people using this amazing herb with an incredible contradiction to what the general public is being told; after 12 years of growing and selling Salvia we have NEVER run across a teen trying to purchase it and we ONLY sell to 18 years and older and so does every company I am aware of (which is hundreds). S. divinorum is NOT a "party drug" and although a few boneheads are on youtube abusing it, this does not mean that it is dangerous, especially if used responsibly. There is not one documented case of someone being taken to hospital injured by Salvia divinorum, it is completely non addictive (in fact many can't handle more then once a year as it is very intense) and no one has ever died from it, can you say the same about legal drugs that our "oh so caring government" gives us daily, like alcohol and tobacco? Count those deaths, injuries and ruined lives.

    If you have never experienced Salvia please do not judge. This herb brings you "inwards" allows you to see within yourself, and analyze who you are and how you can better the world... there is a deep reconnection with nature which the government hates and 89% of people who use Salvia once in their life or more state that their life is clearer and they feel more connected with those around them. That is not danger that is a life that has been destroyed by the media who are the soldiers of the government spreading fear and lies.

    This was free written and I'm not going back and proof reading it, but if anyone would like to discuss this or respond, that would be fantastic... We have true stats and millions of experiences by those who use Salvia as a spiritual tool.

    Hope you take a moment to study the truth about the matter.

    Thank you,
    Chris H.
     
  4. Liz

    Liz Well-Known Member

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    Looks a bit like the one of many varieties of Salvia I have in garden. It's use seems to be ancient and in many countries. I notice it is banned here. Can't say I had heard of it as a plant of abuse.

    This might be of interest. I know it is Wikipedia but a good jumpingoff place for more look see
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_Salvia_divinorum

    Liz
     
  5. The Hollyberry Lady

    The Hollyberry Lady New Member

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    Well thank you Chris, for shedding some light on this, and for allowing us to see a different side of the coin.


    : )
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2009
  6. You are very welcome, this really is nothing to hide from or be all hush hush about; a persons spirituality is a very important thing and trust me... this is not about getting "stoned" like the make it sound like, this is one plant that is not labeled a hallucinogen, or even a psychedelic, it is something that the government is studying behind closed doors, as they do realize there is some sort of true meaning to what the journey has to offer. People have used it to travel back to long lost memories to beat addictions and criminal behavior, as it allows a gateway to find out the "why" behind their actions. Sorry I won't start another long post, its a true passion beyond business to allow people to realize the propaganda they are being fed and no one could even imagine the number of people using this plant for self exploration, we have even sold Salvia extracts and dried leaf to UBC Professors, lol, but I won't mention any names :) US and Canadian Military fighting in Iraq, Doctors, Lawyers and professionals of all sorts... These aren't people that just get high, right?

    Liz, what where are you from? You said Salvia divinorum is banned where you are?

    Take care everyone,
    Chris H.
     
  7. Ron B

    Ron B Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    A friend grew one and tried some of it once, was like a hallucinogenic experience but nothing they got all jazzed about. Did not get the impression it generated an interest in continued usage.

    No mention of clarification, instead just distortion.
     
  8. Interesting, Salvia has a "reverse tolerance" especially but not limited too females. Sometimes a slight distortion is present, maybe for 5 times and then all of a sudden the true meaning and essence of the plant reaches you. This is one you cannot underestimate. The website I'm posting does not link to our business in any way its an informational site known as Erowid, folks should take a moment to view the Salvia Vault especially "Experiences" to understand how powerful this plant is. The journey from it lasts generally 5-8 minutes when smoked but it feels like a lifetime and you can wander around in your own mind, and as real as real itself you can touch your memories, it is purely Shamanistic, it takes some practice to control it and it is VERY VERY important to have a "sitter" someone not journeying to ensure that you are safe.

    Take a look at this link:
    http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia.shtml

    Please do not get me wrong I am not pushing this plant on anyone as many wouldn't even be able to handle it, but that does not mean that people should not be able to use it for their soul searching... I can't handle Christian Church, its too boring, but that doesn't mean I'm hoping they outlaw it... Salvia is no more dangerous then any other religion.

    Take care,
    Chris H.
     
  9. The Hollyberry Lady

    The Hollyberry Lady New Member

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    A lot of what you're saying Chris, makes sense, that not everyone is using the drug to get 'wrecked', but some people are using it to connect with their inner spiritual self that they otherwise might not be in touch with.

    Even caffeine which is also a drug, was originally banned, but people insisted on using it, and it was legalized. Some cultures use certain drugs for many reasons other than getting 'stoned' - like to give them energy, to induce a trance-like state in their rituals, for spiritual insight, etc.

    I do appreciate your point of view and respect what it is you are saying. It's like anything really, there will always be people who abuse and misuse it, and turn it into something it was never intended for.

    Now the media will blow it all out of proportion so that people are scared out of their wits! Like years ago when the headlines in the paper read 'Marijuana causes Insanity'!!!

    Granted, cannabis is a psychoactive drug and it is not without negative effects, but this is just going too far, and frankly bordering on ridiculous - so I see your point about propaganda.



    Thanks again for sharing.


    : )


    I must say though, it is wrong to put down other religions - even if we don't agree with them. We must show tolerance and respect for others, or we shouldn't expect others to have any for us.


    : )
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 26, 2009
  10. Thank you Hollyberry... well said.

    I was thinking someone would step in to tell us the damage this plant and all the other shamanic plants have caused in their life... anyone? Funny, how in 22 years of business not one person has ever complained. Not even the parent of a "JR or High School Kid". Makes you wonder....

    Take care,
    Chris H.
     
  11. Hello, I'm hoping you didn't take my statement of the Christian Church being boring as a put down, as I did say "to me" and yes, you are completely correct and that was my point, everyone has the right to spiritual belief and religion, and that's exactly what these plants are for...

    Thanks Hollyberry for the very positive and open-minded discussion.

    Take care,
    Chris H.
     
  12. The Hollyberry Lady

    The Hollyberry Lady New Member

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    I know you said "to me", but there may be Christians out there that may see it as a negative inuendo, and we should always be careful about how we address other people's beliefs and religions, or we can offend them - even if we might not have intended.

    You're welcome for the discussion. I am trying to practice what I preach and show respect, tolerance, and understanding for other people's ways, that my be different from my own.

    Too much negativity around, and life is just too darn short. We are all just trying to make it through, and together, is better than apart.


    : )
     
  13. Hello, okay maybe my point didn't go across correctly, and I'm sorry if I offended anyone, I meant the statement hypothetical in comparison to the comment about outlawing religion, not the actual religion I mentioned, tolerance, yes exactly, when you outlaw one religion, such as the one the Mazatec Indians live by, which includes Salvia divinorum leaves because its not "the right way" then who is to outlaw Christianity because someone (hypothetical) finds it boring... maybe that clears up my point a little better.

    Again, there was no intention to label the Christian religion at all, sorry if i worded it badly.

    Take care,
    Chris H.
     
  14. The Hollyberry Lady

    The Hollyberry Lady New Member

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    Exactly, Chris. Much better.


    Yes, see how people can be misunderstood if they say things a certain way? You didn't even mean it like that! Now I understand what you did actually mean. Thanks for clarification.


    : )
     
  15. Again, thank you everyone for letting me openly bring some truth to the forum, if anyone is looking for further information on Salvia divinorum, Ayahuasca or any other Shamanic herbs please email me.

    gatekeeper@botanicalspirit.com

    I'll be happy to answer any of your questions!

    Thank you again,
    Chris H.
     
  16. Barbara Lloyd

    Barbara Lloyd Well-Known Member

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    Gatekeeper and all,
    My intention with this thread was purely informational and to make people aware. Certainly not to cast aspersions on anyones way of life.
    I am very aware that some cultures use botanicals to obtain enlightenment. And when used with knowledge can be useful.
    My concern is the knothead who will try anything for what they hope is a "High", and if a little worked what about using alot. Those of us that grow "the good poppy" in this town rarely get to harvest the seeds. Someone has every garden checked out and does this for us, sometimes just the pods and sometimes the whole plant.
    Use without knowledge can lead to disaster, use only with a sitter - defined as someone that knows what they are doing - as stated in another source
    As responsible gardeners we have to be aware of what is in our gardens not only for our own protection but for that of our families, neighbors, pets and the local deer that wander through tasting eveything.
    I only want people to be informed and not go blindly into something that could be a problem. barb
     
  17. The Hollyberry Lady

    The Hollyberry Lady New Member

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    Totaly agree, Barbara. Excellent points.


    : )
     
  18. Liz

    Liz Well-Known Member

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    "Liz, what where are you from? You said Salvia divinorum is banned where you are?"

    Yes I found out after reading yr post it was banned here. I just said that when I looked it up it looked a bit like some of the Salvias I have here. Down at our local historical society which is built in the middle of the remains of a 19th early 20th century nursery (main business in my area) they have a large salvia garden from which I have many cuttings. Would not be suprised if there were some there.

    Liz
    "
     
  19. bedixon

    bedixon Active Member

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    When I first read this my reaction was disappointment that attention must be given in such a fear based way. I'm not suggesting that this herb shouldn't be treated with care, all herbs should... there are many out there that can do more damage than this one. But let's face it, the more attention given, the more attractive it is to certain people, like kids. The links for the pamphlets are all provided by the same media corporation - Syndistar / Fox Pro Media - same same - it makes money by selling educational information on drugs (and terrorism, and date rape, etc etc). You can go to their website and order everything from pamphlets for a few cents each to video packages for $600. Here's another opportunity for profit. Get everyone scared of something that has yet to be properly researched. Make enough noise about it so the authorities are pressured by frantic parents into banning it. So why not just ban everything? Don't get me wrong, I'm not against providing factual information on important issues, I'm a parent of 3, we need good information ... I guess what I'm trying to say is I wish we could educate without the fear. There are many powerful plants in the world that have been used traditionally, ritually, medicinally for centuries - this herb, used carefully and with respect in the right situation, is no more a threat today than it was 100 years ago. We need honest, open education, not orange alerts.
     
  20. Very well spoken bedixon! I also am a father of 3 girls. 5, 15 and 16 years old, with how passionate I am about these plants, my business and everything it stands for they don't even know what we sell and it will stay that way until they are 18 years old, even as a business we fight hard to keep it out of the mainstream as not to make it flashy or attractive to the youth, simple and discreet. We don't advertise anywhere where youth is a focus... this herb and all the other visionary and shamanic herbs should be treated with great respect and care but not fear, the only thing to fear when experiencing a Salvia journey is your true self because that is all it is about, looking inwards.

    Take care,
    Chris H.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2010
  21. The Hollyberry Lady

    The Hollyberry Lady New Member

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    1000% agree!


    : )
     
  22. Barbara Lloyd

    Barbara Lloyd Well-Known Member

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    Chris and Gatekeeper,

    "We need honest, open education, not orange alerts."

    I say again - My intention was only to inform/educate, not an orange alert or any other color! I'm sorry you have taken this as an attack. It certainly wasn't ment that way. I also have Grandkids in my house, a boy 16 and a girl 14. I'm obviously older than both of you, and have seen the awakening of the average, middle class to this new way of thinking. I've watched down through the years as some of the "old ways" have been brought back into modern use, by those that have studied the old ways with the eye and with the knowledge of modern medicine, and proving them valid. I pride myself on keeping an open mind and will continue to do so. barb
     
  23. Hello, I personally have not taken anything in this discussion from the opening of the thread until now as an attack... I personally have found this to be a great discussion and I was hoping to show the other side so that I could see how the general public felt about the matter. I in no way meant to turn the discussion into anything that it wasn't meant to be but instead, as being the owner of one of the largest Salvia divinorum distributors out there and being closely linked to Mazatec indigenous peoples, thought this was a perfect place to shed a little light on the matter. I feel everyone has been extremely open minded and find this to be a very positive experience because in other discussions I have been involved in both on the internet and public speaking, you wouldn't believe the closed minded ignorant responses that come up. I put myself in risk of losing my whole life, my wife, my kids and being thrown in prison for this cause there is a very strong chance that our company will be one of the ones that the government will use to make an "example" out of to fight the drug war even though we follow ALL legalities. So, this discussion has made the cause even more worth it as I have been able to see that there are open minded people out there that do not judge...

    I truly thank everyone for listening to my side of the story and we do have a company philosophy in regards to this discussion, "We do not expect anyone to disobey the laws of their land; we strongly suggest you do everything you can do to change them."

    Take care,
    Chris H - Gatekeeper (the Gatekeeper is a stone image of a face that has appeared in people's Salvia experiences, we have discovered that 100's of aboriginals worldwide that have had no access to outside media or stories have seen this face appear, and when asked to describe it, it is in fact the exact same description as 1000s of other individuals that have never spoken or heard of this entity... spiritual reality that can't be ignored.
     
  24. bedixon

    bedixon Active Member

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    Barb, I never took your thread for anything but caring and concern to share important information, and perhaps I owe you an apology for coming on too strong. It's not you sounding the orange alert, it's the media corporations. It is the Age of the Corporation, they have all the power and money to manipulate us into believing we should buy their products and to lobby the governments to approve them... the Monsantos, the big Pharmceuticals, even Kraft foods, they hype up some information but leave out the bits that don't suit them. It's up to us to seek out what's real. The information you linked may well be factual... or partly ... but my antennae went up when I saw they were not an NGO, or gov't office, they are a big corp profit-making predator. So, I choose not to take their word. I look for alternate sources. When I say orange alert, I'm referring to the level of fear the general North American public has been put in for the past 8 years - just in case there might be some danger out there. Buy your bottled water and duct tape, don't let your kid go outside in the fresh air for fear of being abducted, pass on the emails with the picture of the missing child - which ALWAYS turn out to be false if you check them out - and now there's yet another plant we're supposed to go into reefer madness over? I want to stop, think about it, calm down, don't let them get to me. I don't want to live in fear. I would rather sit down with my kids (all adults now) and explore this plant - ie talk about, maybe try to grow it, read as much info from different sources that we can find, and, if they are still interested, try it with them - than hand them a pamphlet that preaches fear.
    Thank you for having an open mind and accepting my point of view, my "fear of fear itself".
     
  25. bedixon

    bedixon Active Member

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    just read Chris the Gatekeepers note, and agree it's a great discussion. Our herbal products in Canada are still in danger of being regulated so that only big companies will be able to afford to market them, which would be devastating to many small companies, farm gate operations etc. Some herbs are restricted I believe because the big pharma want the control. As with back at the beginning of the 19th century, small herbalism was squashed by the new emerging pharmaceuticals (which got their products from herbs back then) with disinformation and propaganda. This is documented. It's taken a long time to regain credibility for herbal medicine in the mainstream. Now it's threatened with new legislation. I get a bit passionate about the idea of feeling like a criminal for growing my herbs!
    thanks to Barb, for bringing it up, and thanks for the insights of Chris, who's in the epicentre of it all. Good luck!
     

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