Identification: Ojochin - late mid-season, huge double white blossoms, bronze leaves

Discussion in 'Ornamental Cherries' started by wcutler, Apr 23, 2008.

  1. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    The Vancouver Parks seem to have no end of unique trees. It would be nice to identify this one because it's part of the Japanese War Memorial site. There's obviously parts of it missing, so it's not clear what the shape would be or how tall it would be. The blossoms are huge, and when it was first coming out, I thought it might be a double Mikuruma-gaeshi, but the petals have none of the pink pin-striping seen on that cultivar. The only other cultivar we know that has blossoms that size is Tai Haku, and I have seen some double blossoms on Tai Haku, but this tree has mostly double blossoms, with only a few singles.
     

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    Last edited: Oct 28, 2008
  2. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? - late mid-season, huge double white blossoms, bronze leaves

    Pictures show characteristics of 'Ojochin'.
     
  3. Douglas Justice

    Douglas Justice Active Member UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? - late mid-season, huge double white blossoms, bronze leaves

    Why not 'Ariake'?
     
  4. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? - late mid-season, huge double white blossoms, bronze leaves

    Haven't seen that one, that's why I said I saw features of 'Ojochin' - I didn't want to say it couldn't be another. What I am seeing here that fits 'Ojochin' is

    Strong spreading tree
    Single or semi-double flowers
    Large wrinkled petals, white with hint of pink
    Large flowers
    Bronzy new leaves
    Some leaves rounded

    There's also the fact that we have some 'Ojochin' down here, the mix up there is obviously not completely the same but many of the kinds being shown on this site are.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2008
  5. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? - late mid-season, huge double white blossoms, bronze leaves

    Hitting the books I see Jacobson (1996) says

    'Ariake' differs in having less wrinkled petals, less pink, not so freely produced. 'Ariake' is less tree-like, with branches likely to arise from near the base of the trunk. But it can grow 20' tall and wide

    Kuitert (1999) compares 'Ariake' to 'Shirotae'; his and other photos show flowers with a similar appearance.

    Both 'Senriko' and 'Ariake' resemble 'Ojochin', but the latter is distinguished because it is not fragrant.

    Otherwise he mostly compares 'Ojochin' to 'Tai Haku'. They also appear together in the key he presents.

    I've seen pictures of 'Ariake' and probably read all of the above but haven't seen the tree in person or had other reasons to become more familiar.
     
  6. Douglas Justice

    Douglas Justice Active Member UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? - late mid-season, huge double white blossoms, bronze leaves

    Okay, I'll go with 'Ojochin', too. (I hope nobody is keeping score here.) I hadn't seen vexillate filaments (nor extra petals) on the 'Ojochin' at Nitobe Memorial Garden, but then, the tree there is relatively young and not growing in the best situation. Certainly, most of the descriptions do mention extra petals and petaloids. I checked the Manual of Japanese Flowering Cherries (Flower Association of Japan), since Kuitert doesn't mention vexillate filaments for 'Ojochin'. Indeed, they are mentioned in the manual.

    Unfortunately, the photograph of 'Ariake' in the manual (page 211) is a dead ringer for those shown in this thread, while the picture of 'Ojochin' is poor, and much less illustrative. The clincher for me, however, is the description of the leaf margins: "...large simple serration with markedly elongated teeth..." for 'Ariake'; and "simple or double serrate with awn-tipped teeth..." for 'Ojochin'. Wendy's pictures clearly shown awn-tiped teeth.

    I have to admit to not trusting many of the qualitative characteristics that have been put forward. Reading "Strong spreading tree; Single or semi-double flowers; Large wrinkled petals, white with hint of pink; Large flowers; Bronzy new leaves; Some leaves rounded" could easily describe 'Ariake'.

    The posture of the inflorescences should also be an easy identification feature, as 'Ariake' displays (again, from the Manual of Japanese Flowering Cherries) peduncles and pedicels "...stout, erect, not pendulous..." while 'Ojochin' is characterized by "...long peduncles [that] hang down like OJOCHIN, literally a large paper lantern." Unfortunately, this feature is not so clear in these images.

    I guess this just goes to prove that we need multiple images taken from a variety of perspectives, at different times, in different light conditions on different plants of the same and similar cultivars. Consistent, thorough descriptions for all cultivars don't seem to exist, so we'll have to continue investigating multiple resources to get it right.
     
  7. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? - late mid-season, huge double white blossoms, bronze leaves

    >I have to admit to not trusting many of the qualitative characteristics that have been put forward. Reading "Strong spreading tree; Single or semi-double flowers; Large wrinkled petals, white with hint of pink; Large flowers; Bronzy new leaves; Some leaves rounded<

    Wasn't intended to be a detailed and decisive argument that would positively nail it, I don't even have the tree in question in front of me.

    We don't have the aforementioned Japanese reference here, I drove up there to look at it one time and was told it might be in your office. After a second attempt was made some time - probably years - later I began to think it might have been stolen by somebody. Jacobson did use another set in the preparation of his magnum opus, at a library in California.
     
  8. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? - late mid-season, huge double white blossoms, bronze leaves

    Yes on the fragrance. To me it's a faint Chinese 5-spice powder smell, but a (cute) passerby said it had a bit of a sweet smell. Joseph says it's fragrant. I wasn't able to smell the nearby Shirotae today but could smell this up close.

    I don't think the flowers hang lantern-like. That would be like Shogetsu, right? Some of these blossoms hang down, but lots stick straight out. I thought the leaf bracts and stems were sticky, if that means anything.
     

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  9. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? - late mid-season, huge double white blossoms, bronze leaves

    Jacobson says 'Ojochin' is "weakly fragrant":

    http://www.arthurleej.com/p-o-m-April05.html

    You can't see any anatomical details in his picture, but notice the orientation of the flowers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2008
  10. Joseph Lin

    Joseph Lin Active Member 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? - late mid-season, huge double white blossoms, bronze leaves

    You can see the following graceful Japanese Ojochin cherry tree blooming by the Japanese Canadian War Monument in Stanley Park in late April. The smelling of this Ojochin flowers to me was weakly fragrant. As you may know the following true touching story about the Japanese Canadian and their war monument in Stanley Park.

    Masumi Mitsui was a WWI hero, b. Oct. 7, 1887, Japan; d. April 22, 1987, Vancouver. He was one of 196 local Japanese residents who volunteered for WWI. Of these, 145 men were killed or wounded. After leading his troop up Vimy Ridge, Sergeant Mitsui received the Military Medal for Bravery (April 1917), one of 12 Japanese to receive the honor in WWI.

    In 1942 WWII, his family was forced to move from their seven-hectare Port Coquitlam chicken farm and new house to an internment camp in Greenwood, B.C.

    Every year, the open buds of Ojochin cherry like large paper lanterns "lighted up" the Japanese Canadian War Monument even when its top lantern was extinguished during WWII.

    In August 1985, Masumi was the honored guest at the relighting of the lantern in the Japanese Canadian War Memorial (built in 1925) in Stanley Park.
     

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    Last edited: May 7, 2008
  11. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? - late mid-season, huge double white blossoms, bronze leaves

    Nice selection of pictures of the one tree. I combined parts of Kuitert's 1999* descriptions of the two cultivars to see how they would stack up.

    Petals

    'Ariake': Petals 5 plus one or two petaloids (a few flowers may have up to seven petaloids,) oval-orbicular, waxy [sic], showing some undulations, 24-27 x 11-19 mm, sometimes slightly emarginate or crenate at the top.

    'Ojochin': Petals five, occasionally one to three or up to six petaloids extra, orbicular and wavy at the edge, emarginate at the top, 23-28 x 20-25 mm.

    Pistils and Stamens

    'Ariake': There is one pistil, perfect, about 12 mm long, clearly shorter than the stamen (distinctly different from 'Shirotae' with pistil and stamens about equally long).

    'Ojochin': Pistil one, perfect, about 12 mm long, as long as or slightly longer than the longest stamens.

    Flowers

    'Ariake': Flower in bud a light shade of pink, showing a slight pinkish hue when freshly opened, and turning pure white when completely opened. Flower 5.0-5.5 cm in diameter, spreading to a flat saucer shape, strongly scented(!).

    'Ojochin': Flower in bud soft pink, becoming practically white with a light pink shade when completely opened. Flower 5.0-5.5(-6.0) cm in diameter, large, opening to a flat plane with slightly folded petals.

    Inflorescence and Flower Stalks

    'Ariake': Corymbose inflorescence, with four to seven (usually six) flowers. Peduncles long, 3-4 cm. Pedicels 2.0-3.5 cm long.

    'Ojochin': Corymbose inflorescence, with three to five or even seven flowers. Peduncles 1.5-4.0 cm long. Pedicels 1.5-2.5 cm long.

    Leaves and Stipules

    'Ariake': Young leaves light bronze-green. Serration usually single with markedly elongated, fine awns that occasionally have white or slightly pinkish small glands(!); an occasional leaf lacks the caudate tip. Stipules 19-23 mm long.

    'Ojochin': Young foliage slightly bronze. Serration single, remarkably coarse and with awn-tipped teeth. Fully developed leaves often lack the acuminate top. Teeth without glands. Stipules medium divided, 13-19 mm long.

    Sepals

    'Ariake': Sepals long, ovate, triangular 9-10 x 3.5-4.0 mm, entire, with a faint purple tinge. (The 'Ariake' in cultivation in the Netherlands has serrated sepals.)

    'Ojochin': Sepals are elongated, narrowing to the base, 12 x 6 mm (at the base 4.5 mm), with a faint pink tinge, unserrated.

    Calyx

    'Ariake': The calyx is campanulate, 8 x 4 mm, with a faint purple tinge; there is a distinct transition from pedicel to calyx.

    'Ojochin': The calyx is campanulate to funnel-shaped, 7 x 5 mm, with a faint pink tinge; there is a distinct transition from pedicel to calyx.

    Time of Flowering

    'Ariake': Flowering season is about four days earlier than 'Shirotae', from mid-April to early May.

    'Ojochin': Flowering season is from late April to early May.

    Tree Shape

    'Ariake': Tree funnel-shaped, broader at a later age, to 7 m high.

    'Ojochin': Tree umbrella-shaped, to 8 m high and 10 m wide.

    (!) = Important characteristic

    *Japanese Flowering Cherries (Timber Press)
     
  12. Douglas Justice

    Douglas Justice Active Member UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? - late mid-season, huge double white blossoms, bronze leaves

    It is unfortunate that people steal books (or anything else) from public institutions (or anywhere else). The Manual of Japanese Flowering Cherries is a wonderful reference that should be seen by more people. The copy in the library at the garden disappeared sometime before I started working here (in 2000). I seem to remember that it was an unbound copy; i.e., the text was bound with cardboard covers, but all the plates were in a separate envelope. I'm sure that the decision to purchase it unbound was a cost saving measure, as such specialist books are often published in extremely limited numbers and the Botanical Garden Library has never had much of a budget, which makes the loss of it all the more tragic.

    I consider myself to be extremely fortunate to have a bound copy (with silk covers, no less) on my bookshelf. My father picked it up in Japan many years ago (at great expense, according to my mother) to give to me on a my birthday. I will gladly show it to any sakuraphile who asks.
     
  13. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? - late mid-season, huge double white blossoms, bronze leaves

    Not only is it great that you have access to that publication but that you got it in that way. After I saw it mentioned in the Supplement to Bean, Trees and Shrubs Hardy in the British Isles as the reference on the subject I suggested the Elizabeth Miller Library of the Center for Urban Horticulture try to get it. Unfortunately, they were not successful.
     
  14. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? - late mid-season, huge double white blossoms, bronze leaves

    Here are some late season photos. The leaves are green now.
     

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  15. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? - late mid-season, huge double white blossoms, bronze leaves

    For comparison, here is a blossom at just about the same stage from the Ojochin in Nitobe garden. It looks quite similar to me as the blossom from the Stanley Park tree.
     

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  16. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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  17. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Ojochin – single, slightly mauve-white blossoms, bronzy green leaves, mid-season

    Here's the description from Ornamental Cherries of Vancouver, by UBCBG's Douglas Justice.

    Fortunately, the tree we chose for the main photos is the one we think we got right. I think the inset might be from the Nitobe Garden tree. I'm not certain of that, but it looks like it to me.
     

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