Maple cultivar by another name OR (Synonym).#27 #458 #665

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Acerholic, Apr 19, 2021.

  1. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Another that has come to light from a friend is Acer palmatum 'Wou nishiki'. The synonym is Onishiki. (Greer gardens).
     
  2. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Acer palmatum 'Metamorphosa' and the synonym is Arjos1.

    Thankyou R @dicky5ash.
     
  3. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Here is another that came to light today after discussing with M @maf.
    Acer palmatum 'Saoshika' and the synonym is Ogashika.
     
  4. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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  5. Lisa Harry

    Lisa Harry Rising Contributor

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    Hi D
    So I went to the nursery today where I got the ICE Dragon and theirs are all green barely any coppery color at all? I’ve attached pictures for you to see what mine is doing. Let me know your thoughts if you think it’s too much sun or too little shade or whatnot. I’ve done nothing to it it’s in its original pot same as theirs. I should have taken a pic of their but it’s easy enough to say they are all green.
     

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  6. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Hi Lisa, yours is looking wonderful BTW and reacting to correct exposure to the sun. You don’t say where the nursery has theirs placed, but I'm thinking they have them in a lot of shade being maples.
    I find that shade creates a lot more green in many acers, whereby exposure to the sun creates oranges and reds.
    The one thing a lot of people do that is wrong is block out any sun to the leaves. Maples do need sunlight and some a lot more than others.

    D
     
  7. Lisa Harry

    Lisa Harry Rising Contributor

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    Thanks D they had them in full sun but so close together only the tops would see sun so I think your right. I love the colour it is and I believe it’s handling it well and not getting leaf scorch. Having said that do you think I should look for another location that might get more shade?
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
  8. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Good morning Lisa, tbh looking at yours I would leave it as it is. It is flourishing in that position. Some handle full sun very well and some don't. The beauty of it being in a pot is that it can be moved if it starts to show signs of scorch.

    D
     
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  9. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Another just came to light from @Worldly_Wrangler. Acer palmatum 'Yuki yama' and the two synonyms are Snow kitten and Snow on the mountain.
     
  10. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Well-Known Member

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    Sorry you may have to delete this to keep the thread clean and clutter free of unrelated messages! I couldn't work out how to send a PM to a member via their page?

    Anyway, I've been looking at what else Hippo have for sale at the moment and spotted the Hino tori nishiki, as well as a few others and decided to start searching the forums to see other owners pictures before I buy. I came across this thread and wanted to check - is Hino the same as Phoenix then... like the same cultivar completely?
     
  11. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    @Cattwooduk look at posting #384 on this thread. Yes, Phoenix is a synonym of Hino tori nishiki.
    And don't worry about the thread being cluttered by your message, this posting by you is useful to others.
     
  12. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! I wasn't sure though because image searches for Hino throw out photos that look fairly different to Phoenix results. I Can't decide whether to bite on one from Hippo because phoenix is fairly common to pick up, and usually a bit cheaper for the size... maybe I'll just hold off. Somehow the lesser-known name makes it more appealing however!
     
  13. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Understand what you're saying, but as long as you don't get both, lol.
     
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  14. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    I can confirm that Acer cultivars 'Hino tori nishiki' and 'Phoenix' are not the same by any measure. I have both and they do not look the same.

    Interestingly, both were introduced by Dick van der Maat and can be seen as separate entries on his list of introductions. Leaf shape is similar but colour is different with Hino having more of a variegated tone and more pink in spring, with Phoenix tending more towards red in spring without the dusting of variegation.
     
  15. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Well-Known Member

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    This is the sense I got from looking at members photos on here, as well as google image results.
    I did end up ordering one from Hippo, so we shall see! I do like the look of Phoenix, but it's not one that's especially grabbed me yet - there are similar cultivars with some of the same traits but kinda of MORE, if that makes sense.
     
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  16. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Generous Contributor

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    One of my Phoenix trees in Spring..strange all 3 of mine throw out a lovely dusty pink
     

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  17. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Thats interesting you say that M. The info re synonym came from Vertrees. But I'm glad your posting is here, so that others can make an informed decision when looking to buy one or the other.
     
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  18. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Generous Contributor

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    Just took these of the other Phoenix tree
     

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  19. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Put side by side with Hino tori nishiki and it would be hard to tell the difference. A beautiful specimen you have there R.
     
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  20. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Interesting, do you have 'Hino tori nishiki' to compare? Looking at the pics above your 'Phoenix' cultivars do look quite similar to Hino.

    My Phoenix is only little but is much redder and darker than Hino.

    Where does that info referencing Vertrees come from? Mr. Vertrees passed away in 1993 and I believe both of these cultivars were introduced later than that. Vertrees 2nd edition does not mention these cultivars. Vertrees/Gregory 4th edition has 'Phoenix' on page 211 and 'Hino tori nishiki' on page 353 with no mention of either being a synonym for the other.

    I agree about having the information out there so people can make an informed decision.
     
  21. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    My 'Hino tori nishiki' came from Hippo also, some years ago now. I am under the impression they have (or had) a close trading/working relationship with Dick van der Maat so they should undoubtedly have the correct cultivars for his introductions.
     
  22. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Well-Known Member

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    Interesting result then, thanks for the digging folks!

    Either way I'm sure I'll be happy with what they send... that'll be 17 from then in a couple of months. Oops?
     
  23. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Generous Contributor

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    Hello maf - I don’t have Hino tori nishiki so I can’t compare..what I can say is that the three Phoenix trees I have, two skinny 5 foot trees were from one source and one other 8/9 foot older tree came from a completely different source grower, they are all identical in terms of growing habit, very upright multiple upright leaders, leaf shape and colour…often there is some variation from tree to tree but not with these three. These arnt great photos (1st during leaf out but not fully) but gives you an idea,
     

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  24. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    I want to say that 'Hino tori nishiki' is not as upright growing as that - mine is not at least, lots of 45 degree branches.

    Also noticing that your Phoenix plants seem to have quite dark bark, my little one does too. Hino does not have this dark bark.
     
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  25. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Hi M, page 55 World Checklist Of Maple Cultivar Names 1st edition. Phoenix variegated = synonym Hino tori nishiki.
    I think the confusion is with Phoenix and Phoenix variegated.
    Hope that clears things up.
     
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