Identification: Yokihi - (was Edo-zakura) - Late double pinky-white, short stems

Discussion in 'Ornamental Cherries' started by Dingren, Apr 26, 2009.

  1. Dingren

    Dingren Active Member VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    We saw these three large blooming trees on 45th Ave and Larch on April 22. From what we could gather from DJ's handbook, we find them closest to Pink Perfection. Are they? If not, what are they? (They don't look Kanzan to us.)
    _________________
    Dingren & Martin :)
     

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  2. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Kanzan vs Pink Perfection?? Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late

    I think they're Ichiyo. [edited by wcutler 2009apr30: I think they may be the same as what Joseph has posted (see next posting), and not Ichiyo, because the stems are so short]. Pink Perfection shouldn't get that size or ever get that hefty. Right that they don't look like Kanzans, with the dark buds but light blossoms and green leaves. And a lot fewer petals.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2009
  3. Joseph Lin

    Joseph Lin Active Member 10 Years

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    Re: Kanzan vs Pink Perfection?? Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late

    On April 27,

    I found this unknown pink cherry? beside 4 Kanzans (not bloomed yet) behind the famous grove of Akebono at Queen Elizabeth Park West 33 Ave. parking lot.
     

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  4. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Kanzan vs Pink Perfection?? Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late

    I'm guessing Ojochin. Joseph sent me photos to convince me that it wasn't Ojochin, because it has too many petals, but the Ojochin photo looked so similar to this except for the extra petals that now I wonder about it being that even more. On one page, Kuitert says Ojochin "often have a few extra petals, sometimes up to ten", but on the next page he says "Petals five, occasionally one to three or up to six petaloids extra". So it depends which page you read and whether with so many of the flowers having what looks like the maximum number of extra real petals, it could be that.
     
  5. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Kanzan vs Pink Perfection?? Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late

    Joseph has sent me more of a description:
    This flower has 13 petals.
    Every petal looks similar.
    The petal has a notch and some teeth.
    The outer petals have darker pink than the inner ones.
    There is no staminode and no phylloid styles.
    Most have 3-flowered corymbs.
    Leaves emerge bronze green with the flowers
    They are very similar to "Accolade".
     
  6. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Kanzan vs Pink Perfection?? Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late

    How about Ito-kukuri? I can't tell if the petals have darker thread-like veins. It looks like tight clusters of rumpled-looking blossoms.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2009
  7. Joseph Lin

    Joseph Lin Active Member 10 Years

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    Re: Kanzan vs Pink Perfection?? Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late

    I tried to send you the detailed from my photos. If this cultivar is rare, you may try to come to visit it personally.
     

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  8. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Kanzan vs Pink Perfection?? Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late

    Joseph said to go see them, so I did. Anything he says. I'm withdrawing all previous guesses; The stems are shorter than I realized and the flowers are smaller than I thought, more Accolade size (but this is really not Accolade season, even for QE Park, and besides, these are corymbs).
    20090429_QE_Edo_Cutler_DSC02754.jpg 20090429_QE_Edo_Cutler_DSC02755.jpg 20090429_QE_Edo_Cutler_DSC02751.jpg

    Today I'd guess 'Edo-zakura', except for two little details (sigh!). Based on Kuitert's description, the season is right, buds pink-red, flowers almost white when completely opened. Petals usually 12-15 (Joseph said 13), outer tier of petals has pink tinge, flower diameter over 4cm, peduncles and pedicels short, sepals elongated. The two details that don't fit is that I wouldn't describe these sepals as triangular, since they seem a bit too curvy for that. And the corymbs of 'Edo-zakura' should have 4-6 flowers, but Joseph reported these to have mostly 3 flowers, but I'm including a photo with a 4-flower corymb.
    20090429_QE_Edo_Cutler_DSC02765.jpg 20090429_QE_Edo_Cutler_DSC02768.jpg 20090429_QE_Edo_Cutler_DSC02778.jpg 20090429_QE_Edo_Cutler_DSC02744.jpg

    Kuitert doesn't mention anything about 'Edo-zakura' being fragrant. I found these fragrant when I was right up close to the blossoms.
     
  9. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Late double pinky-white, short stems

    I visited the location given for Dingren and Martin's trees (and they're pretty sure of the location) and I recognized the trees there as Takasagos. Here's one, and I guess my blossom photos didn't turn out, as I don't have any saved. Is there any chance Joseph's at QE park is a Takasago? That would account for blossoms that look like Accolades.
     

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  10. Joseph Lin

    Joseph Lin Active Member 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Late double pinky-white, short stems

    Today, I picked several flowers in their late stage at the QE Park. I checked the details of the structure and sizes of the flowers. The peduncles and pedicels are around 2 cm (1.5~4 cm) long. Their characters fit Takasago.
     
  11. eteinindia

    eteinindia Active Member VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Late double pinky-white, short stems

    When I read Wendy's posting #9, I thought they looked like Takasago from the first and I wrote so to Wendy.
    But now I think they are not Takasago.

    When I read #8, I wrote a mail to take a permission of copying the pictures of Edo-Zakura in the Japanese site which I usually check. He gave me permission and also gave me his opinion.
    A. If it is Takasago kind flower, which means pedicel, calyx and style are hairy, then it might be 'Matsumae-Hayazaki'. (Cerasus × sieboldii ‘Matsumae‐hayazaki’)
    B. If it is Edo kind flower, (1.bud scales and bracts are small. 2.Ridges of the bracts are not long. 3.Sepals are long triangles and very smooth. 4.usually have phylloid styles.* my translations might not right, because I couldn't understand his explanation of the flowers in Japanese.), it might be 'Yoki-hi' .(Cerasus serrulata ‘Mollis’)

    Yesterday and today I went 45th & Larch and QE Park and checked with Takasago. I checked Takasago of 3 places. (W 38th & Blenheim, Vine & W 43 and E 46 & Killaney)
    All of them have hairy pedicels at least. (My eyes are not good and I don't have a magnifying glass.) Also there are many flowers which have more than 5 Sepals.
    But Joseph's tree and Dingren and Martin's trees have flowers with very smooth pedicels. Also I couldn't find any flower with more than 5 sepals. All of them have very regular 5 sepals. So they are not Takasago.
    20090506_38-Blenheim,45-Larch&QEPark_Takasago_Izaki 001.jpg 20090506_38-Blenheim,45-Larch&QEPark_Takasago_Izaki 003.jpg
    20090506_38-Blenheim,45-Larch&QEPark_Takasago_Izaki 004.jpg 20090506_38-Blenheim,45-Larch&QEPark_Takasago_Izaki 005.jpg
    I can't understand his explanation about Edo, and also I 'm not sure they are Edo Kind or not.
     
  12. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Late double pinky-white, short stems

    Good job, Mariko! I forgot all about Takasago's being so hairy. I was with Janet Morley and we thought the QE tree felt fuzzy, but there's not a hair to be seen in my photos. So that makes that one and the 45th and Larch trees not the same as the one at the Stanley Park Rose Garden. But I think they're the same as each other. First three photos are QE Park; other three are 45th and Larch.
    QE Park
    20090508_QEPark33rd_Josephs_Cutler_DSC03166.jpg 20090508_QEPark33rd_Josephs_Cutler_DSC03170.jpg 20090508_QEPark33rd_Josephs_Cutler_DSC03177.jpg

    45th and Larch
    20090508_45Larch_Dingrens_Cutler_DSC03245.jpg 20090508_45Larch_Dingrens_Cutler_DSC03255.jpg 20090508_45Larch_Dingrens_Cutler_DSC03244.jpg

    I think we're back to mystery. They're not even Takasago kind, so not Matasumae-hayazaki, and besides, that name means "early bloom" and these are late blooming. I found some photos of that one that don't look hairy at all, but the tree shape and sepals seem totally different. Our blossoms look like your Yoki-hi photo, which does not show phylloid styles (nor do ours), but this Yoki-hi photo taken at Shinjuku-gyoen National park in Tokyo seems much more pink. The person who posted that photo has some Edo photos (also the one next to the one I linked to); the sepals seem to be a different shape, though it's not too easy to see them. We noticed that the flowers on our trees seemed to be arranged on 10cm spurs. The bud scales and bracts don't seem prominent, which matches the Edo type description, but the sepals don't look all that smooth, and I wouldn't call them long triangles - they're more like fat trowels.
     
  13. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Late double pinky-white, short stems

    Douglas Justice, in an email to me, wrote:
    I photographed the trees at 45th and Larch myself and decided at the time that it was close to Ito-kukuri, but then I noticed there were no phylloid pistils, nor big bracts or bracteoles, and they lack the overall volume of that cultivar. Certainly not Ichiyo (not healthy enough, pedicels not long enough, flowers too pink, no phylloid pistils, tree too umbrella shaped). Is it Edo-zakura? Perhaps. I found lots of corymbs with 3, 4 and 5 flowers (see attached), but I agree the sepals don't look particularly triangular. One curious thing I noticed was the variation in flower size on the same tree. Probably a disease problem.
    I defended Joseph, who doesn't really need defending, but he was writing about the QE Park tree, which might not be the same as the Larch one, though Douglas thinks it does look the same. Here's a blossom photo Douglas attached.

    I'm renaming the thread Edo-zakura until someone comes up with some reason why not.
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 12, 2013
  14. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Kanzan vs Pink Perfection?? Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late

    I think what was this tree is the pile of cherry wood near four 'Kanzan' at the 33rd Ave entrance. There is no other cherry tree now in this area, and there's a patch of ground with no grass.
     
  15. Douglas Justice

    Douglas Justice Active Member UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: Edo-zakura - Late double pinky-white, short stems

    I believe that this is 'Yokihi' (or 'Yoki-hi'). A much better fit with that description in Kuitert than the one for 'Edo-zakura'.
     
  16. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Joseph Lin has just posted several photos of the 45th and Larch tree in the Kerrisdale Neighbourhood Blog.
     

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