Winter Grafting

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Kaitain4, Dec 30, 2009.

  1. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    send me one in Italy!!i want tatoo! :-)))
     
  2. Houzi

    Houzi Active Member

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    Hello K4,a forum newbie here.I've been reading your's and other's advice for about a year&half now.Have learned everything I know here,thanks guys.So have at last decided to have a go at propagating this winter,seeds and grafting.
    Just wondered if you could explain the timing of lopping off the top of rootstock before grafting.Why is it left to virtually the last minute and not while still dormant outside? and why done in two stages? Anyway,I'll be following your advice but would just like to know why.
    If you have time to reply,many thanks and congratulations on such a successful year.
     
  3. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Houzi,

    You don't want the understock to start drying out until just before you graft, and you don't want the roots to start growing too soon. So bringing the understock into a warmer space several weeks before grafting and letting them start to dry out ensures that the plant doesn't become too active before its time. You're trying to "synchronize" the breakng of dormancy on both the rootsock and the scion.

    As far as cutting off the tops - you do this to further dry out the understock. Maples bleed badly when the bark is cut, so cutting off the tops lets you get that over with and helps prevent bleeding at the graft union.

    I cut off the tops in two stages because I like to have a large "sap riser" - the part of the stem above the graft - when the graft is new. This helps draw moisture up the plant stem. As the graft takes and becomes active, this is not as necessary, so I cut it off to a couple of inches. Later, when the graft is completely healed and all is well, I cut off the remaining sap riser with concave Bonsai purners. Gives a nice finish that heals well. Some people don't leave a sap riser at all, but I do as insurance. Its a very common practice in propagation of plants. In fact, some conifers cannot be grafted successfully unless a sap riser is left on for 2 or 3 years. Maples are less fussy.
     
  4. Houzi

    Houzi Active Member

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    K4,thanks for the information and your time,you've explained more than I hoped.So the extended stem helps keep it 'alive' at and beyond the graft while it takes?,makes good sense.
    Thankyou again and I guess you'll be planning this year's batch soon,wish you every success.
     
  5. John Hosie

    John Hosie Active Member

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    Has anyone prepped to try it this year? What were the net results last year?
     
  6. Atapi

    Atapi Active Member

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    Hi Kaitain4,

    I am a novice on JM grafting and I has tried them the last two yrs with very minimum of success until I ran to your post today. I know it may be a few yrs old post but the info is still very valuable for my try again this winter.

    So I would like to ask you a few more questions to get ready for this yr grafting.
    I plan to bring my rootstocks in this week and hope it starts growing in the next few weeks for graft.
    1. Can I top a few inches off since I plan to do a hi-graft then a few more inches one week before grafting?.
    2. May I leave them in the garage on top of a heater to keep them warm?.
    3. For Light - is it OK with a typical double fluorescent tube (4ft long) on top of the garage?
    4.Right after grafted - where is the idea place to keep the grafted trees?.

    Thank you so much,
    Steve
    P.S: I noticed the forum has ben closed for awhile, so I wonder you are on another forum or can you send a reply thru my registered email (steve.minhtue@gmail.com), Thanks.







     
  7. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    1. Can I top a few inches off since I plan to do a hi-graft then a few more inches one week before grafting?.
    You can cut back the understock at any time. Just be sure to leave some length above the point you want to graft.
    2. May I leave them in the garage on top of a heater to keep them warm?.
    Sounds like it would work. How cold is the garage, though? I think the grafts need to be fairly warm (in the 60s) to heal up properly. Mine are always in the house, where its 70 degrees.
    3. For Light - is it OK with a typical double fluorescent tube (4ft long) on top of the garage?
    Maples need strong but filtered light. It would be OK while the grafts are healing, but after they sprout they will probably need more natural light than that. I keep mine in a sunny room and put white plastic trash bags over the windows to make the light softer. They seem to do OK.
    4.Right after grafted - where is the idea place to keep the grafted trees?.
    I keep mine in my den. Some place a little cooler (65 degrees maybe) is probably better, but that's the only place I have. I keep a humidifier going.
     
  8. Atapi

    Atapi Active Member

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    Hi Kaitain4,

    Ran across this double graft topic and I have a quick question for you.
    How was your double-graft turned out?. Any follow-up photo? Can we graft two different colors or different species (Tamuke & Seiryu or red & green lace leaf)?.

    Thanks.
     
  9. Atapi

    Atapi Active Member

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    Hi K,

    I have a few JM seedlings plants that are in the ground for two or three yrs and i plan to graft them without repotting the rootstock. I read what you did here and wonder if you have some insight for me. If I want to graft them right on the garden then when will it be the good time to do it and do I need to top off the rootstock also?. I assume we can cover the graft with plastic bag... just like inside?.

    Thanks again.


     
  10. AlainK

    AlainK Well-Known Member Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    Bonsoir,

    Thanks for asking, I will follow the thread with attention ;)

    A.
     
  11. Atapi

    Atapi Active Member

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    Hi Kaitain4,

    I just have a quick question about the dome/tent that you posted below. You build this tent when the leaves begin to open and I see you still tie up the plastic at the bottom.
    So when do we just cover the top and leave the bottom open?. Similar to what Dr. Shell's demo.
    At this stage, can we water the plants more and about twice a week?.

    Thanks.

     
  12. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    The new grafts are very sensitive to humidity. I tie the bags so it is easier to move them higher or lower to adjust the humidity. It helps if they are tight.

    I slowly increase the watering. I don't drench them until they are fully leafed out. I really judge how much water they need by the weight. If the pot seems light, it gets watered. I also watch for signs of drooping. I monitor the grafts every day so I can respond quickly if a plant starts struggling.
     
  13. Atapi

    Atapi Active Member

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    Morning Kaitain4,

    I hope to find you well, happy and peaceful.
    I have a few follow-up questions for the young graft trees:
    1. When can we completely remove the plastic bag or dome?. Is it when the leaves are fully opened or is there a time frame i.e. 4 or 5 or 6 weeks from the grafted date?.
    2. I removed the bag on a few of them and the leaves are drooping the next day, is it mean they are not ready and/or the atmosphere is too dry?. The plants are placing near the bright window.
    3. How susceptive for these young grafts against sunlight?
    4. I also try to examine some of the failed graft to try to learn how the cambium is working and i see some white stuff near the outside parameter of the union. Is that the sap or cambium to bond the graft?
    5. When this area and the scion cut area are turn black, is it mean they are bad?.

    Thank you so very much, Steve
     
  14. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    1. When can we completely remove the plastic bag or dome?. Is it when the leaves are fully opened or is there a time frame i.e. 4 or 5 or 6 weeks from the grafted date?.
    It really depends. Usually when the plant it totally leafed out and the plant has stopped 'pushing'. Do not rush it.
    2. I removed the bag on a few of them and the leaves are drooping the next day, is it mean they are not ready and/or the atmosphere is too dry?. The plants are placing near the bright window.
    Yes. Not ready.
    3. How susceptive for these young grafts against sunlight?
    They need protection from direct sun. I tape white trash bags on my windows which cuts down the intensity of the sun.
    4. I also try to examine some of the failed graft to try to learn how the cambium is working and i see some white stuff near the outside parameter of the union. Is that the sap or cambium to bond the graft?
    The graft may have been bleeding. Be careful not to water too much until the leaves have come out.
    5. When this area and the scion cut area are turn black, is it mean they are bad?.
    If the scion turns black it is dead. You should see healthy green scar tissue at the graft union.
     
  15. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Here are a few photos to help you along. The first two are of a graft that is ready to come out of the tent. You can see that the leaves are pretty much all unfurled and are not putting off a lot of new growth.

    The third photo is of a healthty graft union. The green scar tissue can be plainly seen. This is a sign of success.
     

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  16. Atapi

    Atapi Active Member

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    Hi K4,

    Thank you so much for the replies incl. the photos. I believe I have made several mistakes against your comments. Well, more lessons learned for me and that is why mine when the bud swell and about to open then it stopped and died.

    I also noticed the way you wrap the rubber band.
    Q: Do you intentionally leave space in between for breathing when you wrap the rubber band?. I tend to wrap it tight and cover the entire grafting area as much as possible then use paraffin to cover over the rubber band area. Please advise.

    Thanks again, Steve.
     
  17. nemesis

    nemesis Member

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    Hi K4,

    I grafted 4 scions and only one of them is starting to sprout. Does it indicate the scion is fully accepted by the rootstock ? Thank you
     

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  18. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Nemesis - not completely. Its a good sign, but I've had scions sprout on their own and later die because the graft had not actually taken.

    Sprouting out and having the graft union heal are only the first part of the process. Many, many things can go wrong that can make the graft fail. Not enough humidity, disease, cold (too much), heat (too much). Sometimes the understock can go bad. I have three grafts that were fully leafed out and looking great, and now they are dying because the understock has died. Don't know why, but it happens. (see below)

    In general, grafts are fragile things that require a lot of babying to do well. Its easy to kill them.


    Atapi - I do not intentionally leave the graft union uncovered. Just the way I wrap usually leaves it exposed.
     

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  19. nemesis

    nemesis Member

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    Update my grafted, still don't know this cultivar yet. The third one is the mother tree of the grafted one.
     

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  20. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Its looking good!
     
  21. PoorOwner

    PoorOwner Active Member 10 Years

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    can you tell us where you got the tray and 4 inch pots?
    thanks
     
  22. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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