Identification: Winged conifer seeds

Discussion in 'Gymnosperms (incl. Conifers)' started by tfreeland, Jan 6, 2021.

  1. tfreeland

    tfreeland New Member

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    Hello, I’m new to the forum.

    I’ve had some success germinating conifers over the past couple years and a friend recently sent me some seeds gathered in Victoria. A bit of Googling suggests they are not the species she thought they were.

    It doesn’t look native to the Island. My best guess without access to a collection or reference book is Abies; A. magnifica looks close, but would be a long way from home.

    Thanks in advance for any IDs and/or insights on germinating.
     

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  2. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    The lowland native is grandis otherwise procera is prevalent on local properties. And magnifica seems unable to become a significant feature of decorative plantings very far north of its native area. Otherwise although eventually spoiled by pests various balsamic firs including balsamea, fraseri and lasiocarpa are much planted in our region as well.
     
  3. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Cedar seeds. Can't tell whether Lebanon Cedar or Deodar Cedar. Several of the seeds are slender and likely empty, unviable, but a couple look plump - shake them gently in your open hand, if they feel 'heavy', you have good seeds, if they feel light and chaffy, discard them.

    The good ones will need some cold moist treatment; store them in moist (not dripping wet!) sand in the fridge for a month or two over winter; ideally at 1°, but 4° or 5° will do if that's what your fridge allows. They may sprout in the fridge, if they do, sow right away in a well-drained compost (coir/sand mix is good; avoid peat), otherwise wait until March. Keep them in pots in a frost-free growing room / greenhouse until all rish of frost is over.
     
  4. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Yeah I wondered what Abies would have such big wings.
     
  5. tfreeland

    tfreeland New Member

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    Thank you, Don and Michael, for your responses. Cedrus does look promising! If I manage to sprout some, I suppose I’ll make a specific ID eventually. I have had success with a 4-5 week interval in the fridge with Thuja plicata and Picea sitchensis. As far as this cedar’s ability to grow up here in the Terrace area, that’s another unknown at this point.
     
  6. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    @tfreeland good afternoon, I have grown many Lebanese Cedars from seed over the years as it is one of my favourite trees. I would say this is what you have.
    Not difficult to propagate, but you need many many years to fully appreciate this wonderful tree.
    Good luck and do post photos of how they go. I for one would enjoy seeing how you get on.
     
  7. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Cedar of Lebanon scarce in local plantings, greatly outnumbered by deodar and Atlas cedars. Not impossible that seeds happened to be collected from an example of Cedar of Lebanon, but a randomly encountered tree here much more likely to be one of the other two.
     
  8. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Hmm interesting theory Ron. Time will tell as often is the case with seeds. But here's a thought, if something is scarce then perhaps more of an incentive to collect the seeds and post to a friend rather than something very common.
     
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  9. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    This is the back story as presented in original post:

    a friend recently sent me some seeds gathered in Victoria. A bit of Googling suggests they are not the species she thought they were.

    It doesn’t look native to the Island. My best guess without access to a collection or reference book is Abies
     
  10. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    I think we will all be interested to see in a year or two what they actually were.
     
  11. tfreeland

    tfreeland New Member

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    I will be sure to follow up if I have success. Thank you everyone for the insights. I am curious, as an amateur — what are the chances that viable non-native cedar seeds result in some kind of hybrid? If they are wind pollinated, and individuals from each species are relatively rare (e.g. in a park in Victoria).
     
  12. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Thats good to hear, they also should run true. Look forward to seeing your update in the following years.
     
  13. Georgia Strait

    Georgia Strait Contributor

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  14. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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  15. Georgia Strait

    Georgia Strait Contributor

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  16. Georgia Strait

    Georgia Strait Contributor

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    Good idea as there is a major park in downtown Vic called Beacon Hill

    Also Royal Roads Univ

    And Fort Rodd Park

    So many possibilities
     
  17. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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  18. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    As an aside, I was including Atlas Cedar in Lebanon Cedar; it is a lot less distinct genetically than Deodar Cedar, so better treated as a subspecies of Lebanon Cedar. Scale below in estimated millions of years:

    Cedrus phylogeny a.png

    Of hybrid risks; yes, they are there, all the cedars can hybridise with each other in cultivation.
     
  19. tfreeland

    tfreeland New Member

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    Fascinating stuff! I'll challenge my friend to find that tree again and maybe we'll get some answers...
     
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