windmill palms in 5b?

Discussion in 'Outdoor Tropicals' started by Unregistered, Dec 30, 2005.

  1. I know some subtropical trees like staghorn sumac that grows in southren ontario and there are some tropical looking plants by peoples houses but i did see still a plant that is tropical still green in december but can i grow a windmill palm in 5b zone the hardness zone sites had said windmill palm for 6 and for 5b i do see temps -22C
    but we do have alot of day in winter 3C or 4C rarely 12C the winter are not that cold but we do get of snow and rain
     
  2. LPN

    LPN Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I wasn't aware Staghorn Sumac was subtropical. Hummm.
    Any web site telling you Windmill palms are hardy in zone 6, only wants your money.
     
  3. Needle palm wont grow in trenton or any palm some people tried it and we had a night -42 C it wont happen it died. I was dark brown just dead!
     
  4. PalmBoy

    PalmBoy Member

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    im in z6a and im preparing to grow both Windmill and needle palms here. It can happen, ive done the research. There is a book called "Palms wont grow here and other myths" By David A. Francko. It is made for the zone 6 palm growers like us...okay so you have 5b? close enough! haha good luck, it cant hurt to try! Also check out Musa basjoo, for another tropical look. Its a cold hardy banana tree that can survive as low as -20F with protection.
    best wishes,
    alex
     
  5. LPN

    LPN Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I hope Mr. Francko sells many copies of his book and makes a ton of money.
     
  6. yea but that -42.C only happend once in 1988 but now we never get below -26.C just more mild days but the big problem is we get to much snow But i will try a needle palm again.
     
  7. And i have another thing I ride my bike in the streets and i see some plants that are still green but its janaury but one did look like a needle palm but its flat but dark rich green and there is another plant that look like a small little palm but it still did not die. but I know I can grow a yucca fine in our climate. but with this warm weather its fealing like a zone 9 I might ask them what they are.
     
  8. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    That's no guarantee. If it has been -42°C before, it can be -42° again. Even with a degree of global warming, that's still a risk of a lethal -41°.
     
  9. Gregn

    Gregn Active Member 10 Years

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    You can try a REAL trachcarpus takil although I would keep it well protected for as long as possible. They will grow kind of slow to start. the problem is that they are an endangered and very hard to come by. I have 2 (hopefully a male and a female!)
    These palms once mature will be good to approx -22 C They were recently re discovered in the early 1990s in the himalayas there arent many (if any) real mature specimens around
    so most of the seeds collected come from their native habitat.
    There are quite a few knock offs - probably T carpus fortunei X's
    Try this link this place may have a few left http://www.tropic.ca/O-P-Q-S-T/Trackycarpus takil.htt
     
  10. Eric La Fountaine

    Eric La Fountaine Contributor UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    At the moment it looks like that webpage is not displaying, but you can read the description in the code. To get to the nursery backtrack to http://www.tropic.ca/
     
  11. jetoney

    jetoney Active Member

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    Here is another web site for zone-stretching palm enthusiasts:

    http://hometown.aol.com/fitzroya/myhomepage/cooking.html

    (Despite the URL, the title of the page is "Palms in Colorado Springs (USDA zone 5b)"

    It contains a lot of detailed, practical information about cold tolerance of palms. The gist is that plants can often survive brief exposure to temperatures below their rating, although they may suffer varying degrees of damage, up to and including complete defolation. I think that is the same point made in Francko's book referenced above.

    So if you are willing to accept a plant that does not look its best or grow very vigorously, or if you are prepared to take extraordinary measures to protect it during cold spells, there appears to be a reasonable chance of success. Of course, another option is to keep your trachycarpus in a pot and move it into the garage during sub-freezing weather, as I do.

    -Jim
     
  12. Not to much cold spells right now but if we do i will protect it. just take a look on

    the weather network.com and write trenton on the city search or go to wonderground.com and see how warm it it for palms but they do update.
     
  13. seahawks2884

    seahawks2884 Member

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    Sooner or later someone will grow a cold hardy palm in our zones 5ers to 6ers with winter protection when small ,gradually without winter protection after . These palms have adapted well in a short time to zones outside their natural habitat. Keep pressing the limits they will respond in due time to their new environment even if two out of ten lives we will make progress. BE PALM TRAILBLAZERS!
    People said palms would not grow here or there!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    regards,John
     
  14. There is alot of 5B yuccas out there there is a great big one at the trenton airbase dont know what species it is. It a light green and no winter damage on it. I think I have to go
    with the yucca instead with a palm. theres a website west texas plants that show some nice looking 5B yuccas
     
  15. BlondBoy47

    BlondBoy47 Member

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    Well, I know that I've just jumped into this thread rather late... ok fine, I just registered today! LOL

    In April 05, John said:

    Sooner or later someone will grow a cold hardy palm in our zones 5ers to 6ers with winter protection when small ,gradually without winter protection after ........ BE PALM TRAILBLAZERS!

    Well, here we are in the middle of Feb06 and I guess I'm one of the trailblazers.

    While we have a bunch of different types of palms that we throw a hoop house over for winter protection, we also have a Trachycarpus (hybrid of a Takil and something else. Sorry, I do keep forgetting its name) which is planted outside with minimal protection. And I only protect on days that are subzero temps and/or when it's too wet (raining too much). Other than those times, it's basically unprotected.

    Well, to be clear. I just popped one of those Home Depot, $20 mini greenhouse thingies over it (with zipper). Inside, there's a 15Gal pail of water and a blow dryer on a thermostat.

    During dry periods with temps above -8C (for now) I unzip it, turn off the blow dryer and leave this palm open.

    This is its 3rd year (2nd winter) and it's doing very well.

    Like has been posted on forums about Trachies, it is a very slow grower, but I've read that it picks up speed after the 2nd or 3rd year. I hope that it goes into a growing spurt this year.

    So, to others in S. Ontario, GO FOR IT! Not without protection (including a controlled heat source) however. We do need to be realistic about our limitations up here.
     
  16. I bought a Trachycarpus Takil and I have it in a pot right now but I have to wait till spring like the end of april depends how warm it is. And in winter I will protect it like you do. We had a very mild winter. But we had a huge storm with winds 93 mph and freezing rain snow rain and flash freeze not enouth cold to kill a palm. I bought more hardy things like prickly pear hardy cactus , musa basjoo, and yuccas Im going to plant these hardy tropicals and proctect them from freezing rain and rain or very cold like -25C. But we had a very mild winter but it was stormy. I found in somebodys yard a needle palm! not a yucca it had devided leaves the only winter damege he told me was from freezing rain.He said it was alive in 7 winters. So 5b should be fine Trenton ontario website says 6a for us and usda 5b.Thanks im going to do it!
     
  17. ron3215

    ron3215 Member

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    im considering planting a windmill palm in sw ohio......any advice as to how to protect it, i will be in the south during the winter months, so it would need to be some type of permanent protection for the months of dec-march
     
  18. Gregn

    Gregn Active Member 10 Years

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    Ron, what zone are you / how cold does it get where you live? Is it dry or wet? Then I may be able to assist you. I lost a 50cm (trunk) palm this past winter at - 13c however the tree was not dormant when the weather turned in late November. Also, which variety and what size a tree are you considering?
    Greg
     
  19. ron3215

    ron3215 Member

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    Hello Greg, Im In Zone 6..not Really Sure If Its Dry Or Wet But It Does Snow Frequently. I Have A 4ft Windmill Palm
     
  20. Gregn

    Gregn Active Member 10 Years

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    Obviously, you are pushing the boundaries you have a better chance of survival once the base of the tree reaches its mature width (5 to 8 inches). 1st I would wait till spring before planting, 2nd, I would plant in a sunny protected spot with excellent drainage, 3rd I would mulch around the roots being careful not to mulch the trunk. 4th, wrap the spear (the new growth sprouting from the centre of the trunk) with burlap and place a plastic bag over the burlap to direct rain water from getting between the spear and the trunk. I know 1st hand that this causes BIG problems and big set backs - the water that freezes in the trunk is not good If you loose the spear you set back the growth of the tree by about a year - if you don't kill the tree altogether. This should suffice until the temperature falls to -12c (10f). Below this temperature, you will have to be creative. I know some people will wrap the entire tree in burlap starting from the base being careful not to damage the mature fronds. You could wrap the trunk with rope lights first (not the LED type as they do not put off any warmth) or specially designed heating cable or whatever you can come up with to provide warmth.
    I am assuming the windmill palm you are referring to is a Trachycarpus fornunei ? You would have better chance with a (real) Trachycarpus takil - if you can find this rare palm as they are hardier by about 10 to 15 degrees F. Better yet may be a Needle palm.

    Greg
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2007
  21. Canadianplant

    Canadianplant Active Member

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    When you say -42C, that is witht he windchill, the opnly place ive seen that had actually temps that have gone to -40 without windchill, and that is here in calgary. Windchill doesnt affect plant material.
     
  22. LPN

    LPN Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    "Windchill doesnt affect plant material."
    It most certainly does affect plant material. Also, If you check weather records I'm sure you'll find the coldest temps recorded are not exclusive to Calgary.

    Cheers, LPN.
     
  23. Canadianplant

    Canadianplant Active Member

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    oh no definetly not exclusive to calgary. We are zone 3b-4a, SW ontario is 5b-6b, big difference in min temps.
     
  24. cocunut mike

    cocunut mike Member

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    I also live in zone 5b southern Montreal and have been growing windmill palms --needle palms-sabal minor-yucca rostrata-musa basjoo- and med fan palm last year med fan was probably a fluke some methods of winterizing work better than others
    I tried southern and northern exposures for windmills and they lived 3 years old now and musa basjoo has tobe a south wall I have 4 2 years old and I bring in my large specimens --visit my website for info at
    www.montreallandscaping.ca ---if your in my area come pick-up your palms and get a tour of palms growing outdoors 3 locations--plenty of pics on website under tropical decor--we were also in the suburban newspaper last year a link is available to see that
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2008
  25. jimhardy

    jimhardy Member

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    Another good place for info is,growing palms in colorado spring usda zone 5b-you will need to protect them in winter for sure.There is a lot of information out there for doing this,and there are alot of people doing it successfully!Good luck
     

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