Will the real “Osakazuki” please stand up.Discussion.

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Ken Hamilton, May 20, 2018.

  1. Ken Hamilton

    Ken Hamilton Active Member

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    Whe I was in the horticulture trade more than thirty years ago we sold A. p. “Osakazuki” which in the leaf always looked like the photograph on the left. In recent years all I see for sale as “Osakazuki” are plants with leaves that resemble the photograph on the right.
    To be fair they are both spectacular in the autumn or fall.
    I have heard talk about an imposter from New Zealand but I’m sure there is someone here who can shed some light on something that has puzzled me for a while.
    Thanks in advance!
     

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  2. Cjart

    Cjart Active Member

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    I would be really interested to know the answer to this also. Have an unnamed graft that I thought might be ozakazuki but was told the leaves of osakazuki were different. The leaves that I have look more like the leave that you show on the left. The leaf on the left would be an amoenum leaf shape and the one on the right would be matsumurae. That is my guess on referring to Vertrees 4th edition which lists O sakazuki as an amoenum. Just saying!
     
  3. tiko7

    tiko7 Active Member

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    It is hard for me to make any difference of grafted Osakazuki from reputable source and seedlings from the same trees.
    What makes Osakazuki diferrent from any green Amoenum?
     
  4. Ken Hamilton

    Ken Hamilton Active Member

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    It is very likely that the autumn/fall colouring will not be as reliably brilliant or the same tones in the seedlings.
     
  5. tiko7

    tiko7 Active Member

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    I think they have the same red glowing at night coloration. I will take pictures this autumn .
     
  6. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Well I do think there's quite a possibility for dilution here. The true Osakazuki is certainly amoenum and not the leaf on right in Ken's photo (as he clearly knows!) I've heard stories of "my osakazuki doesn't color properly -- well it's probably your soil" which suggest imposters. There is also a "red form" -- leaves more reddish leafing out -- which is sold, so there are clearly at least a few clones on the market.

    Like tiko7 I sometimes get red FC amoenum seedling that would pass for the cultivar, so it's easy to imagine the dilution.

    The most popular JMs tend to adopt the cultivar name as a sort of brand: "Bloodgood" for any red amoenum form, "Sango kaku" for whichever coral bark, in the same way we call facial tissue "Kleenex."

    The true form also bears brilliant red samaras, which make a gorgeous contrast with the green and provide a lot of summer interest.
     
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  7. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    A picture of one of mine a few years ago with the big green leaf (sometimes nearly as big as your hand) with the pretty samaras to show the contrast in the colours as emery remarked.
     

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  8. tiko7

    tiko7 Active Member

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    I had not paid attention of the leaf shape so I checked my Osakazukies :)
    The first pictures show that the shape is as the leaf on the left posted by Ken.
    The green plants(pic 4 and 5) are Оsakazuki seedlings and it is clear that they do not inherit the mother tree leaf shape.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
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  9. maplesmagpie

    maplesmagpie Active Member

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    In the photos forum, mr.shep says there are four forms in the trade--

    "There are at least 4 forms of Ōsakazuki, I have two of
    them. One has a light green leaf, one a darker green
    leaf with almost a blue cast to the bark color. There
    is an akame form with rose-pink highlights on the leaf
    margins with a golden cast to the rest of the palmate
    leaf as well as beni form, a pink-green as seen in the
    early Spring only. "

    Acer palmatum 'Osakazuki'
     
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  10. AlainK

    AlainK Generous Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    I'll have to check mine before it gets dark, but since it's in a big plastic pot and when it doesn't rain I water it from the tap, since the water here is very hard, the colours of the leaves are usually paler than, say, in Scotland.
     
  11. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

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    Here is a prime example of the problem.
    Home » C. V. Starr Virtual Herbarium

    Notice the spelling on this site / picture record (as referenced by @mr.shep) this listing spells it as Ohsakazuki "Oh" boy and it mentioned that the example is a cross seedling which resembles Ken's picture in the 1st post (leaf on the right). To give credit, the example in my link mentions the tree is a seedling, but how many took scion wood from it and started grafting it as Acer palmatum 'Ōsakazuki'.

    I have always known it to be like the left leaf in the first image of Ken's first post, large and wide, not deeply divided. Like a large sake cup!

    But when I check Book for Maples I'm a bit surprised by the photo and notice a cultivar of similar name at the bottom of the page.

    Then I found another picture online that is "Osakazuki" in spring color and a picture of fall color:
    大盃王(O-sakazuki-o)的介紹  @ 楓槭的世界 :: 隨意窩 Xuite日誌


    I have mostly only seen the version Bizon sells, see link, then 4th picture:
    Bizon Nursery - Catalog

    I would like to think that Book for Maples has the right one, but who can know for sure?
     

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    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
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  12. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

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    Book for Maples mentions on same page 246. "There seems to be three cultivars named 'Oh sakazuki' One of them is 'Akame'. (Note: Listed under 'O sakazuki akame'). The early Spring foliage is deep red-brown, later becoming green throughout Summer. The Autumn leaves are beautiful red."

    The author never mentioned the name of the 3rd?

    Is it Acer palmatum 'Ichigyoji'? The author of the blog talks about how it is a related species of Osakazuki.
    Several photos of spring color and close up of leaves:
    一行寺 (Ichigyo-ji)的介紹 @ 楓槭的世界 :: 隨意窩 Xuite日誌




    大盃(O-sakazuki)與大盃赤芽(O-sakazuki-akame)的介紹
    Translated talks about the history of Osakazuki and O-Sakazuki-akame:

    It is an ancient species known for the most typical autumn leaves, and is a very famous species with its intense deep red color. It was recorded in Japan's "Herbal Supplements" in 1851 that it was officially registered in Japan in 1882 and wasrecommended by the Royal Horticultural Society's Garden Merit (AGM) in 1993 . It represents the "King" among a variety of Japanese maple trees. It is a wonderful fall color among all the Japanese maple trees. Some experts call it the most vivid and densely colored leaves of the Japanese maple trees. The beautiful autumn colors. It is likened to a "burning bush", even if dusk is still burning like a fire. It is a good background tree in the summer. It is a maple tree belonging to a larger leaf species and is resistant to cold and strong in growth. Since the base of the blade sometimes assumes a cup shape, the species is called " saki-cup-like leaf " or " O-sakazuki ". Compared to O-Sakazuki-akame,some people call it " O-Sakazuki-midorime. "

    " O-Sakazuki-akame " is a species introduced by New Zealand . It is characterized by the fact that the sprouts of spring buds are longer than the " O-sakazuki " and their adaptability to the environment The area is also wider than the " O-sakazuki ".
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
  13. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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  14. Ken Hamilton

    Ken Hamilton Active Member

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    Would you buy this for 'Osakazuki?

    Photographed in local garden center, this is the only form I come across for sale these days. At least in this part of the world.
     

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  15. AlainK

    AlainK Generous Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    Yes I would. It looks pretty much like mine.
     
  16. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

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    I feel like that looks more like 'Osakazuki akame' to me but I do not have first hand experience with it.
    Acer palmatum ‘Osakazuki akame’ | Iseli Nursery

    And look at the picture, tree at bottom of page in this attachment
     

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  17. Houzi

    Houzi Active Member 10 Years

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    Hello y'all,been away a long time,hope you are all keeping well.I can see the enthusiasm is still there! Just thought I'd mention,I seem to remember Mr Shep saying the true cultivar had enormous leaves,far bigger than mine and any I've ever seen.
     
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  18. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

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    I hope you can stay and thanks for sharing that info!
     

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