which japanese maple? I want a "Tree" not bush

Discussion in 'Maples' started by rob223, Sep 21, 2005.

  1. rob223

    rob223 Member

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    Hi I have a sheltered location and want a tree looking, japanese maple that will stay smaller than 8-10'. Locally and very well price I have these to pick from,

    crimson queen: these are the nicest condition and size, can I train them to look like a tree?
    shaina
    tamakeyama sp.?
    garnet
    ever red
    red dragon
     
  2. rob223

    rob223 Member

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    Also which of these would be the most cold weather hardy?
    Thanks!
     
  3. Wanda4

    Wanda4 Member

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    Hi there,

    I'm sure not the expert here - there are many knowledgable people on here.

    By saying that you want a "tree" not a bush - do you mean that you do not want a
    weeping variety? A more upright growing tree? I think most of the varieties you have named are more of the weeping lace-leaf varieties. I think Red Dragon would be too slow growing & small for you. That said - most Japanese maples can be pruned and trained to almost any form you want. Which makes them a popular subject for bonsai.

    You might want to look at some of the photos of these trees - there may be photos in the maple gallery (of this site) of many of them. Some in their mature form. It's good to keep in mind that most (not all) Japanese maples tend to grow slowly and do not reach extreme heights that many other trees attain. And the larger the tree, the more costly it will be.

    Hope this helps a little.
    Wanda
     
  4. Idacer

    Idacer Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    rob223,

    Your reference to "tree looking" could be interpreted in many different ways. Personally, I'm going to guess that you're looking for a form and structure that none of the trees you've listed is going to be able to do for you.

    The closest might be the Shaina (see http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=2342), but many would consider this to be as much or more a bush than a tree.

    All the other cultivars on your list are weeping dissectums. Their nature is going to tend to be "mound-like" and "weeping". See http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=2144 for some pretty good examples of what Crimson Queen will look like after a few years of maturity.

    I have never been inclined to attempt to force a tree to take on a shape it was not genetically programmed to have. Rather, finding a cultivar that has the characteristics you're looking for is probably the best way to go. Given the fact that these cultivars are all available to you locally, I'm going to go out on a limb and say there are probably several other cultivars of Japanese Maples that would likely do well in your area. Maybe you could give us a few more ideas about what other characteristics (e.g., leaf color, leaf shape, single or multiple trunk, etc.) you're interested in?

    Bryan
     
  5. rob223

    rob223 Member

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    Thanks for the replies! I picked up a crimson queen that looks like its been trained to be a more tree shape the graft is about 18" off the ground right now. I put it pretty close to the house and would like to put a larger 7-10' tree alittle further away along a walk way that will give the house a little privacy but not be a solid dense canopy alittle airiness to the canopy would be great.
    I guess Im looking for a red variety that will get 6-10' and not cacade to the ground, I would like it to look more like an old tree where you can see the under structure and larger branchs with more bunched or tightly grouped leaves more concentrated in different areas. Basically a bonsai type shape but in a bigger tree. I like twisted and contorted looking branching.

    Thanks again,
     
  6. jacquot

    jacquot Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    People have already given good advice and asked the right questions.... It seems to me like this was gone over a little quickly in asking for more. I don't mean to discourage your interest in these wonderful trees, but things were said and good questions asked. You may have taken it all in, but maybe not??? I learn from every post that goes in here, including this thread. You asked a very good opening question that two knowledgeable people answered well, but that seems to have been dropped rather quickly. I think they were taking time to help you make a wise decision with your trees, which you asked for, no? And by the way, your choices are all good trees, and this hobby has a way of continuing, so I wouldn't worry too much about it either. You would be amazed at the variety of choices that are available.
     
  7. rob223

    rob223 Member

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    ???
    Um..... yes I read their replys, and they asked for a little more description of my idea of "tree like" which was addressed in my following post. Please dont be so quick to assume Im not taking in their responses just because Im trying to follow thru. Maybe they said or asked something I didnt get? IF so please spell it out for me. I feel a little offended that you presume I am hasty or ungratefull. Like I said if I missed something let me know maybe Im just not as quick as you. PLEASE lets keep this thread constructive.
    Thanks
    Rob
     
  8. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Hi Rob,

    I don't read jacquot's response that way, but that could be just me. I agree with the sentiment of keeping the thread on-topic, though, so apologies for inserting my off-topic blurb.
     
  9. Idacer

    Idacer Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Rob,

    I have a similar landscaping need and have chosen an a.p. 'Fireglow' in the hope that it will develop into the form that you describe. But, mine is still quite small (about 3'), so only time will tell. You might want to do some additional research on the Fireglow to see if it might be a possibility. I believe they are pretty available in most areas.

    That's just one possibility. I'm sure there are many more.

    Bryan
     
  10. Wanda4

    Wanda4 Member

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    Well, your Crimson Queen may be grafted high - but it still will not be the 'tree' shape you are looking for. It's limbs will be arching & the growth will form rounded mounds. You might be able to stake it higher (yes, I hear those screams: "plant torture" :-) but it will still maintain the shape it is bred to have.

    I don't think Jacquot meant to sound critical of your posts - you have to remember he is translating from French- so try to read between the lines.

    I think Crimson Queen may make you appreciate the mounding shape of some of the Acer Palmatum - she is a lovely tree & there are many many old specimens of her all over the world. Welcome to the Acer Addiction Forum!

    Wanda
     
  11. jacquot

    jacquot Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I truly meant no harm. Your criteria are many. I think of Japanicum and Shirasawanum from your description--though I'd not call them contorted--and there are red varieties now, although not readily available, especially in larger sizes. But they have more of the form you describe along with the hardiness. For Palmatum, I thought of Inazuma and Kasagiyama. Some of the Yatsubusa types will be the right size and form after many years, and you might find larger specimens via mail order, but I'm not sure about the red summer color or hardiness. I would be very careful about hardiness, wind is as great a factor as any in colder climats. It is very difficult to lose one of these trees, or even to suffer severe damage. They have personalities.
     
  12. thebronze

    thebronze Member

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    All the ones you mentioned are shrub like and will probably top out before 8' after 20 years of waiting. Why not get a Seiryu, Shin Deshojo, Beni Otake, or Atropurpureum ? Lots of good red and green upright subspecies out there.
     
  13. rob223

    rob223 Member

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    Most of those are unavailable locally and Id rather pick out my tree than rely on buying one blindly. As far as the atropurpureum dont they get really big like 20-25'? or no? Now as far as heights go should I expect a lower ultimate height because of a shorter harsher growing season, or is it a matter of just taking longer to become fully grown?

    Thanks everyone for all the replys
     

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