What's up with all these Organic seeds?

Discussion in 'Organic Gardening' started by bob 2, Mar 23, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. bob 2

    bob 2 Active Member

    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    edmonton
    I would like to point out, that while I fully support organic agriculture, I do not support fundamentalism, irrationality, or superstition, and I certainly do not support profiteering or corporate attempts to control organic seed supplies. I am opposed to making organic agriculture into a fundamentalist religion, and I am opposed to the theft of the word "organic" by government bureaucracy OR SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS, and I am opposed to the corporate takeover of the "organic movement".

    Bullying me with criticism and name calling does nothing to close the gulf between us.
    I think my question was more than fair and I had expected not less than a fair answer.

    So far, as Soccerdad points out, the tone here is unfriendly, condescending and basically, extremely unscientific.

    Bob
     
  2. woodschmoe

    woodschmoe Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    694
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    gulf island, bc, canada
    It's worth noting (apologies if I've overlooked an earlier reference earlier) that this quote ought to be attributed to JL Hudson (D. Theodoropolous), as it is taken verbatim from one of his essays on the topic: http://www.jlhudsonseeds.com/Essays.htm. Worth reading, addressing as it does the content of this thread.
     
  3. bob 2

    bob 2 Active Member

    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    edmonton
    Absolutely correct.
    It seems to do no good crediting much here right now as anything that tends to disagree with the most vocal here is regarded as a lie, a manupulation, or worse.

    His remarks however, do summarize my feelings most completely and I will apologise for not having credited the original piece.

    I am not sure exactly who orginally said this:

    "Many of our fellow citizens no longer have the tolerant souls and morals of free men and women. They have the souls and morals of busybodies and petty tyrants who want to run their neighbors' lives. "

    Agian it was not me but does summarize some of my thoughts.

    FWIW, I just skimmed that article which I must have read before and it is well worth reading for all here interested in Horticulture and the role that "organic" farming can play in the larger picture.

    Thanks for the reference. I bookmarked it this time.


    Regards

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2009
  4. Laticauda

    Laticauda Active Member

    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Oklahoma, US
    Well, there are a few things to consider here, not including all of the propaganda swarming this thread.

    First of all, in order for farmers to be considered organic, they have to meet certain criteria, this costs money! This could explain a rational increase in the price.

    However, if you look at it from your perspective, the selfish consumer, "What's it do for me, that I have to pay more for it?" You can't deny that plants absorb what they are grown in, and pretty much anything they are exposed to while they are growing, especially through the roots and leaves. Pesticides, chemical fertilizers not only effect the immediate product from harvest, but as you can imagine, it builds up in the soil, and as time goes on, the levels of toxicity increase.

    If you don't believe "that," then I guess it isn't worth it FOR YOU, to purchase organic for a higher price.

    This is a completely different issue from people being gouged for something that's "organic." I also think it's best saved for a different thread. Maybe a "Hot Box" or something for people to vent..... or something.
     
  5. greengarden bev

    greengarden bev Active Member

    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    SW Ontario, Canada
    Okay, Bob. Let's try again. The point of my original post was to say that your generalization about the price of organic seeds being "double" are simply not supported by the list prices for online retailers.

    But okay, I relent. You're talking about prices in one store on one seed rack in Edmonton, well we'll just have to take your word for it that those particular organic seed prices are twice the price, won't we? Let's just say they are . How could this be explained?

    Well, let's look at the possible reasons why organic seeds could be more expensive.

    1. cost of production is higher, because of additional fees to organic certification bodies, as well as the additional time spent in administrating the process, time spent with inspectors etc.

    2. for organic middlemen/brokers (larger seed houses that don't grow their own organic seeds but purchase them for resale) the cost of buying organic stock could be higher, since most growers of certified organic seed are small operations that either can't supply the big retailers with the quantities required, or they don't want to (because they are selling it directly under their own brand) This capitalism 101: scarcity = higher prices.

    3. stringent "separation" requirements for organic goods when the processing facilities also handle non-organic goods. Most organic certification standards require that there be virtually no possibility of organic products being 'contaminated' by non-organic products. For the big seed houses, this could mean the added expense of separate facilities and special training for staff.

    4. land use concerns. Organic certification usually requires significant "buffer zones" between organic crops and the (non-organic) crops of the neighbours. The additional land requirements could mean that fewer seeds are produced per acre/ sq ft.

    5. consumer perceptions and marketing. Jeanneaxler mentioned this in an earlier post about pricing reflecting what the market is willing to pay. The benefits of supporting organics (whether real or perceived, it doesn't matter) are considered worth the price premium.

    Let's not forget the "mystical blessings" that must be conferred upon organic seeds. These have increased in price this year. A wide arm-wave with a 30-second incantation by a single holy hippie costs $5,000. Two hippies chanting in unison costs $8,000. There is 10% premium for incantations in harmony.

    Just in case you really think that there is something other than the usual "market forces" at play, let me clear this up for you: there is no conspiracy, no mystical blessings, nothing other than good 'ol reliable capitalism at work here.

    Bob, if you insult the organic people on the organic board, you should expect to be insulted back.
     
  6. soccerdad

    soccerdad Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    426
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC, Dunbar area
    I happen to agree with one viewpoint - no reason to say which - and I think that the contrary viewpoint is inane. But although I seldom let inane views pass without challenging them, I think that this site has traditionally been one in which people speak with abnormal civility. In the last few weeks I have however seen three series of posts in which that standard has not been met. Please people, if you think the other person is a fool, and even if they insult you, forget them. I do not stop to engage in dialogue with crazed street dwellers who scream as I pass them. I ignore them. We will all be happier if the same approach is taken on this site.
     
  7. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Esteemed Contributor UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

    Messages:
    9,993
    Likes Received:
    340
    Location:
    Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Yep, I'm not pleased. Thread closed.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page