There was no tag on the pot so I have to guess the cultivar name. I have my idea but I'll tell you later.
I see the humor, or is it mockery? It is really not fun and games to ID a maple, at least not for most of us. If you have some idea about the proper name for the tree, it would be best that you state it up front before expecting the rest of us to go out on a limb and say anything. For one, what did you even like about the tree that made you buy it? Since you are the one that bought the maple with NO tag, then maybe you should grow it for a season or two and observe it. There are plenty of reputable places to buy maples where the growers use lables! This scenario is truly bothersome. For the record, I have been reading some recent posts, where the person posting seems to be holding back information that could be of valuable assistance in obtaining the answer. That is certainly the equivalent of asking all of us to waste our time. If you needed more time to research the identity of your tree then you might as well have waited to post the tread until you had your facts straight. If your motives are in fun or mockery, then you best reconsider the purpose of this forum. Colby, for the record, Andre did say cultivar name, so I am sure we could assume that he, and everyone who views the photo for that matter, knows it is Acer plamatum. Now we wait. MJH
Well, I didn't want to influence your opinion. That's why I didn't give my idea immediately but as you insist, I think it's a beni kagami. Can anyone confirm that or has a better idea ?
Guys: I used to love seeing Maples for sale that were not marked or did not have a label as I felt I could buy the nurseries mistake. Today, when we pay $20 for a five gallon Maple we still can get lucky but in many more cases than not we are not buying a named cultivar. I've seen nurseries make up a name for Maples that have had their labels lost in transit from the grower to the nursery [one of the reasons I do not like the guessing of names as so little thought was put into the guess and then to see that guess for sale really does get to me]. Even grafted seedlings have been sold, really started on the East Coast in the mid 80's as a means to sell Bloodgoods for landscapers that were only seedlings of Bloodgood, of which none of them were true to type. Since people were buying the name rather than the plant only a select handful of people knew the Maples were not Bloodgood at all. Even today people do not know the difference between a cutting grown Maple and a seedling and in one plant forum in particular the difference between an old field grown cutting grown Maple and an old grafted one. Sometime take a good look in the Esveld web site and tell me which Maples were cutting grown as opposed to being grafted Maples. Here is how we eliminate some of the guessing. Andre, what makes you think this Maple is a Beni kagami and what is not right in the color of this Maple for it to be a Beni kagami? I used to get these type questions every day, even when I named the Maple right to start with. It is not getting the right name that matters, it is the reasons why and how we got there that counts much more as then we have a foundation to fall back on when we see the Maple elsewhere. Jim
Andre: I don't be afraid to influence anyone's decesion. Some of us will be able to ID a maple very quickly, while others of us, like myself, will have to work at it. If we know what you think and how you arrived at a conclusion, it will not be as hard or time consuming to jump in and help you. As a follow up to what Jim said, this it the first year that I have seen "Acer palumatum seedlings" sold in the valley where I live. the are all about 2ft tall in 1gal cans and for sale at two very large nurseries for $8.99. They are all var. atropurpureum or Bloodgood seedlings. Now they are all well marked, but I have been watching them migrate over into the named cultivar section and as the nursery gets more traffic they will soon lose their tags. What makes it hard is that many seedlings will have a high level of similarity to the parent tree. Sometimes the only difference is color or degree of color, or very minute differences in leaf shape or growth habit. It would not be hard to pass these trees off as any number of palmatum cultivars. Add in the fact that some will have more dissected leaves and serrations and the opportunity, as Jim describes, is ripe for decption. At least in many cases, deception is not the intention, but the result it the same. At least in the case here in Oregon, the seedlings are being sold as such, but the price of the named cultivars went up 30% from last season. I know there is a need and a market for less expensive palmatums, but I am just not sure how I feel about the seedlings for sale. As far as your tree being Beni kagami, that is a very good guess as far as the leaf shape. I get the impression the lobes of Beni kagami might be a bit more narrow than those on your tree, but that can chage with culture and age. As for the coloring, I see too much red in the leaf as well as the green undertones and mottling. Even though Vertrees says that this cultivar does not have the deep purple of related trees, all the photos I have found show a good purple coloration. A more uniform purple or burgundy would be expected. Sometimes the mottling you are seeing in the leaf, with the green undertones, can be caused by shade, but is a also a characteristic of seedling grown forms. Beni kagami is also known for bright red petioles and the only ones I could make out on yours are green. Again, a characteristic that can be effected culturally, but one that should hold up on this cultivar. This is not a tree I am familiar with, so maybe we can both learn something. I think the best thing you could do is move the tree into a little more sun and see how the leaves color up. From there, mabye wait to see how the fall color looks. MJH
I'm sorry but I do not understand. This tree is grafted but what do you mean by "named selection" ? A tree can be grafted and be at the same time a named selection, no ? Can you details these words for a poor french man who try to understand ? ;-) Thank you
Do you mean that "no name maple" does exist ? Do you consider that the presence of a graft means that the tree has more chances to be a named cultivar ? So what is the difference ? I find a similar picture in the vertree's book. Thank you for your help. ;-)
Years ago online the ;- and the :- had two very different meanings. Do you mean that "no name maple" does exist ? Well, no, it does not exist today. The no name Maple once did exist years ago but was rendered extinct back in the mid 80's. Do you consider that the presence of a graft means that the tree has more chances to be a named cultivar ? Depending on where one lives and who is selling the Maple, yes and no. All things being equal, the grafted Maple is more likely to be a named cultivar most of the time but certainly not all of the time now. So what is the difference ? You are not ready to know that stuff yet. I find a similar picture in the vertree's book. Well, the photo in the 3rd edition Japanese Maple book on page 119 is right and so is the photo on page 82 of the 2nd edition Japanese Maple book as I know who took the photograph, how the photo got to Oregon St. and who owned that Maple. I got to see that Maple almost every day for 14 years. I'll let someone else help you with your Maple now. Jim
What should I do to be ready ? We use to say here that "knowledge is the only thing that grows when you share it". So please share ;-) And an other question : what did this :- and this ;- means years ago ?
Details If you would like, I will help. The matsumurae group is difficult to deal with, just like dissctums and palmatums. More difficult is that some overlap. I think if you get your maple into some sun and can get pictures of new foliage and mature foliage, we will get somewhere. The coloration you have now and the photos you have chosen will likely only be recognized by someone that has owned the maples and had it growing in similar conditions. I don't think you will find a picture to match what you see. You will only come close. I see both 5 and 7 lobed leaves. Do you notice that one is more prevalent than the other? what color are the twigs and petioles? MJH
Here is a close up on a leaf. Some (like this one) has central lobes that cover each other. Is it a known attribute of some cultivar ?
