Identification: What cherry? Double pale pinks, green leaves, late season

Discussion in 'Ornamental Cherries' started by wcutler, Apr 23, 2007.

  1. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    I thought this was an Ichiyo, as the blossoms look similar to me from the front, being very pale pink two-row doubles, with older blossoms having purple centres, but from the back they're quite different. These sepals are very green and there are often (thought not always) six or occasionally seven of them. Some of the sepals look like add-ons, as they're a bit smaller than the others, and they're not all evenly spaced around. There are three of these trees just past the rose garden in Stanley Park (Vancouver) on the right side of Pipeline Road, and another along the path from there to Malkin Bowl, on the left at the next path into the woods.
     

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  2. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Naden.
     
  3. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Really? That's what we've been calling Takasago, and it looks so different to me from all the Takasagos that I've recognized so easily in my neighborhood. Even the last Takasago photo I posted that's a nice full tree has big hefty limbs and mostly short branches and still fits the description by one nursery of "small stocky tree". This one seemed more delicate than the Takasagos I've seen previously, and it has so many long thin branches.

    I don't know whether I'm complaining here that a Takasago would have the nerve to look so different from what I thought I knew, or I'm not willing to believe it yet.
     
  4. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Yeah, yer right its twigs and flower stems are too slender and so on. I only glanced at the middle picture, which seemed to have right leaf and flower. Looks instead like a lightweight type such as a P. X subhirtella or P. X yedoensis selection. Shaded position, perhaps on a cool site may account for still being this much in flower. Darkening of flower centers does indicate they are going over.
     
  5. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Takasagos do have have more than 5 sepals. I have a photo in the Takasago thread.
     
  6. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    OK, I'm calling them Takasagos, and the first tree does sort of look like a Takasago. But the second tree? This one is in the same area but open to Pipeline Road. The blossoms, April 16 in the photos, are totally convincing and they look the same to me on the four trees in that area and there's a fifth tree at the other end of the paved path toward Malkin Bowl. Blossoms belong to the tree they follow.
    20080415_RoseGarden_Takasago_Cutler_3713.jpg 20080415_RoseGarden_Takasago_Cutler_3715.jpg
    20080415_RoseGarden_Takasago_Cutler_3717.jpg 20080415_RoseGarden_Takasago_Cutler_3721.jpg 20080415_RoseGarden_Takasago_Cutler_3722.jpg 20080415_RoseGarden_Takasago_Cutler_3726.jpg

    I should merge this into the Takasago thread?
     
  7. Douglas Justice

    Douglas Justice Active Member UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society 10 Years

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    Sure, 'Takasago'. Do they have fuzzy leaves? They should have hairs on both sides.
     

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  8. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Yes, it has fuzzy everything.
    20080421_RoseGarden_Takasago_Cutler_4289r.jpg

    Bill Stephen noted in an email: "The peduncle is not so short, about 2 cm. There are always two flowers per inflorescence, not in globular clusters." He also mentioned "...the young leaves have a very beautiful delicate orangey red tinge on the margins."
     
  9. Joseph Lin

    Joseph Lin Active Member 10 Years

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    Re: Stanley Park--Takasago-like cherry

    This afternoon, I found this Takasago-like cherry tree on Pipeline Road pass Rose Garden, which is different from the other nearby three Takasago cherry trees on the road leading to Pavillion. The flower petals are not less compact, pedicles are longer, branches are healthier without lichen and moss, and the tree is taller than usual Takasago cherry tree. Anyone may take a good look of this tree in an afternoon with better light.
     

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  10. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Stanley Park--Takasago-like cherry

    Joseph posted this originally in the West End neighbourhood thread, and I replied:
    I don't agree that there's "no lichen and moss", though half the tree does look clean. But I am with Joseph that this looks different from what we call 'Takasago', and when Douglas Justice mentioned some other tree having branches that were too skinny for the ID I wanted to give it, I thought of this tree and Joseph's attempt last month to get a different ID for it.

    Our description for 'Takasago' in Douglas's book (Ornamental Cherries of Vancouver) mentions "short spur-like branches" on which the flowers are borne. I don't think of this arrangement being spur-like, but maybe I'm not imaginative enough. The last photo is a leaf from the tree, for comparison with the photos below.
    20110514_ROseGarden_Takasago_Cutler_P1110835.jpg 20110514_ROseGarden_Takasago_Cutler_P1110836.jpg 20110514_RoseGarden_Takasago_Cutler_P1110839.jpg 20110514_RoseGarden_Takasago_Cutler_P1110843.jpg

    Would the difference in appearance be influenced by the way that it's been grafted? Or maybe it's not grafted. I just wrote in the Are these trees grafted? thread that it doesn't seem possible to demonstrate that a tree has not been grafted, so the most I can say is that this tree seems to be growing on at least some of its own roots. These photos are from shoots growing near the tree.
    20110514_RoseGarden_Takasago_Cutler_P1110847.jpg 20110514_RoseGarden_Takasago_Cutler_P1110850.jpg 20110514_RoseGarden_Takasago_Cutler_P1110853.jpg
     
  11. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Here are some bare-bones photos of the Pipeline Road trees, and photos of a Comox St 'Takasago' for comparison. You know how little I know about how trees grow, but I do think that the condition of the trunks of these park trees is so different that it's entirely believable that the overall appearance of the trees could be different with them still being the same cultivar. All the street trees are grafted high onto avium stock, and are in terrible shape, whereas the park trees are either grafted low or underground or not at all. You can see brown rot, though, on the park trees (we know there's lots of brown rot on the street trees), but the third photo is the park tree along the path, farthest from the road.

    The Stanley Park Pipeline Road trees (Takasago?)
    20111231_PipelineRd_Takasago_Cutler_IMAG0145.jpg 20111231_PipelineRd_Takasago_Cutler_IMAG0152.jpg 20111231_PipelineRd_Takasago_Cutler_IMAG0155.jpg

    Comox Street 'Takasago'
    20111231_ComoxChilco_Takasago_Cutler_IMAG0189.jpg 20111231_ComoxChilco_Takasago_Cutler_IMAG0191.jpg

    I thought while we're compariing things, I'd just throw in a 'Mikuruma-gaeshi' to compare with the 'Takasago'
    20111231_PendrellChilco_MikurumaGaeshi_Cutler_IMAG0186.jpg
     

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