Victoria Plum Blossomed but leaves have failed

Discussion in 'Fruit and Nut Trees' started by mbge5amw, May 21, 2006.

  1. mbge5amw

    mbge5amw Member

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    Location:
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    I've tried to find answers both on paper and online but am afraid I am still stuck.

    I'm in at the deep end a bit with gardening having just moved into a house with a garden 6 months ago, it's a steep learning curve but great fun.

    For my son's thanksgiving 12 months ago his godparents bought a victoria plum.
    As we hadn't yet moved house to one with a garden they kept it at their house in it's garden centre pot.

    This february we transplanted it into our garden.
    I cut out about 12" of turf around the desired spot and filled the hole with peat free compost and bone meal mixture.

    Around the trunk I put weed supressent sheeting and bark chippings and kept it well watered.

    This year we have seen about 6" of growth on branches and got lots of blossom, however the tree has only produced a couple of dozen tiny leaves which have now seemed to die off.

    I hope I've not killed it. Should I feed water or prune it to revive it?

    Please help before his godparents come to visit and notice the bare twigs in the garden alongside the neighbours foliage covered specimins.

    Thanks

    Andy
     
  2. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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  3. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    If you want a prognosis of the trees condition you
    may want to post some photos of it and include at
    least one photo of the entire tree and one of the
    trunk where the probable graft is.

    As far as backfill for a new planting, unless you
    are dealing with a soil with some known problems
    it is better for the tree for us place the same soil
    that came out of the hole back in the hole with no
    added soil or nutrient amendments. Most areas
    do not have to be as concerned with some of the
    issues we have here with our soils, so it is generally
    recommended to place the dug out native soil back
    into the hole upon planting.

    You can try to answer a couple of questions for
    me. When the leaves emerged, how soon was it
    that they shriveled up and dropped off the tree?
    Were the leaves able to expand in size before
    they fell or did the leaves start to emerge and
    then they shut down? Did the leaves emerge,
    look okay for a few days and then turn allover
    yellow in color or partly yellow with some black
    colored specks in the leaves, then have the outer
    edges of leaves curl inwards or curl under and
    then the entire leaf shrivels up and then falls
    off the tree several days later? What I would
    want to know is what the branches look like
    after the leaves dropped off the tree to know if
    this tree has suffered some temporary dieback
    and has a chance to live depending on how
    much live wood there is left or perhaps see
    and determine that this tree has already passed
    on. I realize this is not an enviable position for
    you to be in. You can ask a nursery professional
    or better yet a certified arborist to come take a
    look at the tree and learn what options you have
    then but at this point in time the preliminary
    prognosis for this tree is not good.

    It could very well be that you did not do anything
    wrong, that even a missed timed fungicide spray
    might not have prevented this condition from
    happening. Sometimes all we can do is suppress
    a disease as we never really do cure or prevent
    certain diseases from possibly killing our trees
    over time. Your tree may have had one of the
    more destructive and virulent diseases that young
    Plum trees just are not developed enough yet to
    ward off the effects of it once the pathogen invades.
    Or the pathogen was in the plant already when the
    tree was purchased and did not show itself until
    the tree becomes stressed. Even a heavy flowering
    can cause stress to a young tree or the abundance
    of blooms was due to stress to the tree from the
    previous year.

    Jim
     
  4. mbge5amw

    mbge5amw Member

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    Location:
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    Thanks for your thoughts. I forgot to mention also that we had a couple of late frosts here this year, I don't think there were any after the blossom came out but I couldn't swear to that.

    I'll try and get out this evening after work to look at the condition of the leaves and if I can manage convincing my camera to focus where I want it to maybe even post some photos.

    For now I have hopefully included the photos I took yesterday which show a general condition but are a little hampered by the auto focus of our digital camera being more interested in the lawn than the tree.

    Thanks again for your advice - hopefully we don't have to go cap in hand to our sons Godparents and confess to arborocide but it doesn't look too promising I admit.
    Andy
     

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  5. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Location:
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    I am glad to see you have provided photos. It is
    just that I am in the access challenged location
    to be able to open any of the thumbnails to see
    the much larger sized photos. Give me a day or
    two to get back in a more conducive location and
    then I’ll take a look and try to see what is going
    on.

    Jim
     
  6. oscar

    oscar Active Member

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    it looks dead to me......wheres the bark mulch you talked about (all i see is big tufts of grass)........the other advise on planting is very good (better to use nothing than that peat free stuff)..i could argue the case for and against amending soil till the cows come home, my personal opinion would be asses each site on an individual basis.....anyway i digress, victoria plum is best trained against a wall or strong fence with wires, they have brittle branches and with the weight of fruit easy break.........i say start again, buy a good healthy specimen, check the whole plant up and down, lift up the pot to see if roots are coming out the bottom (even ask a member of staff at the nursery or garden centre to take it out of its pot).
    good luck with the replacement.
     
  7. mbge5amw

    mbge5amw Member

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    Oscar,
    You're right you can't see the bark mulch, unfortunately the only times I have been able to get my hands on a mower in the last few weeks it has been pouring with rain, couple that with the bone meal I put down when planting the tree and i suddenly have quite a meadow growing around the base of the tree. I assure you there is bark mulch there though.
    Hopefully the weather will hold off for this weekend and I can atleast get the lawn sorted.
    Andy
     
  8. oscar

    oscar Active Member

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    lol, you do have healthy grass there ;)
    tell the god parents it must have picked up a fungus, from what you say you tried your best...........from my experience the tree was going to fail before you even planted it. (maybe not, im just trying to make you feel better)
    i have an idea, next time have a ceremonial planting and get the god parents to plant it ;))
     
  9. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Location:
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    If you want to try an experiment and see if you can save
    the tree, cut it way back allover to as much live wood as
    you can. Start over with just a half sized trunk if need
    be. You might get lucky if this tree is not too far gone
    now but the photos do not give a good indication of the
    amount of live wood left. As soon as I saw this tree
    go into decline I would have done a pruning hatchet
    job on it to force it to put on new root growth in a
    last ditch effort to try to save it. Then if you decide
    to go ahead and severely prune this tree, then right
    afterwards give this tree an allover dormant spray,
    preferably with Copper sulfate.

    I believe this tree was showing signs of the disease last
    year but one thing we should not do is leave Fruit Trees
    in a container for any real length of time. Yes, nurseries
    will pot up bare root plants as they are easier for them
    to deal with than bare root trees but we can hurt some of
    them a lot when we do not go right ahead and plant them
    as a bare root tree right into the ground.

    It was not your planting technique that may have done this
    tree in, it was diseased from the start. A missed fungicide
    spray along with some late season stress the year previous
    can cause these trees to die out rather easily when the
    internal disease takes over. It is unusual here to see Plums
    any more flower, leaf out and then shut down but it does
    happen in other areas.

    Jim
     
  10. mbge5amw

    mbge5amw Member

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    Thanks for your words of advice and encouragement Jim, I'll pop out this afternoon and give the tree a thorough pruning and a good spray to give it a fighting chance and then see what happens from there.
    Thanks for your time.
    Andy
     
  11. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Location:
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    If there is a chance to save this tree, go for it.
    After you use a Copper based fungicide on this
    tree, you may want to look for an Agricultural
    grade systemic like Ridomil to use later once
    you get some new growth. What you need
    after you prune this tree way back and give it
    a good dousing from a fungicide spray is to
    have warmer temperatures and have plenty of
    sunlight. Tell the rain to go somewhere else.
    I've seen some of these trees look like they
    were dead and then were able to snap out of
    their doldrum stage later with some work on
    our part. There is no guarantee but we can
    at least try to save the tree. If you need any
    further help let me know.

    Jim
     
  12. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    That late frost was a critical point to bring up. Looks like it got frosted. Are you in a frost pocket (low-lying area that collects stagnant air)? Certain magnolias that happened to be at a vulnerable stage of development when it got cold this year also were spoiled, although most did not lose all new growth. A bacterial infection could produce a similar appearance.
     

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