Variants that thrive on their own roots

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Riverdale27, Sep 16, 2021.

  1. Riverdale27

    Riverdale27 Active Member

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    Hi all,

    I seem to notice when I buy JM's that certain variants are not grafted, coming from multiple nursuries. These are Katsura, Orange Dream, Phoenix... or even Butterfly, Seiryu, Trompenburg, ... And I even see Atropurpureums that are sold that originate from a cutting and not seed.

    I presume these variants all come from cuttings and will produce vigurous roots on their own.

    Is this also what you have heard or notice about this? Are there any other variants that do quite well from cuttings?
     
  2. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Good morning Kurt, lots of maples do well on their own roots and especially Atropurpureum. The only thing with cuttings or seedlings is that they don't always run true to the parent form. I have found over the years that you can have lovely non cultivar maples in your garden no matter that they don't have a recognised name. Tbh there is far too much emphasis on named trees IMO. So if you have a lovely maple in your collection that doesn't have a registered name, then 'so what' !!
    Just enjoy

    D
     
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  3. AlainK

    AlainK Generous Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    OK for the seedlings, but cuttings are by definition clones, so they are always true to the parent tree.
     
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  4. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Very true Alain. My mistake.

    D
     
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  5. AlainK

    AlainK Generous Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    Only fools never make mistakes (my Latin-French teacher when I was 12)
     
  6. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Lol, but very true Alain.
     
  7. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    The information I have gathered over the years is that decent success with A. palmatum cuttings requires very strongly growing current year scion material, followed by a long growing season to accumulate enough sugars to overwinter. Some commercial growers accomplish this by heavily cutting back their mother plants and then forcing them in a heated greenhouse in early spring. Success does vary by variety, but all the ones you tend to see are the stronger growing varieties. I don't think it is possible to grow witches broom varieties from cuttings and the dissectums are said not to do well as cuttings either.

    Air layering is much more practical for the typical maple enthusiast to make extra plants on their own roots. (Doesn't require a misting chamber, makes a larger plant than a cutting.)
     
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  8. opusoculi

    opusoculi Well-Known Member

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    That is clear as that can be, thanks maf.
     
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  9. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    This is an interesting topic and in many ways I prefer Japanese maples on their own roots. If I could rate appearance based on the first few inches above the soil line, seedlings would be first, cuttings (and layers) second, grafted plants third.

    I generally buy cutting grown Japanese maples if I see them in a variety that I do not already own; this summer I bought a small 'Phoenix' for example. They are usually cheap (and small) and seem to be available from supermarkets, DIY stores and mainstream garden centres rather than specialist suppliers. They seem to be equally as hardy as grafted maples if you can get them through their first winter with you (their second winter presumably, but likely their first winter outside). My little 'Phoenix' was full of powdery mildew when I bought it and has lost some leaves but fingers crossed it will persist and become healthier next year.

    The main barrier to building up a good collection this way is that there seems to be a fairly small group of cultivars that are regularly offered as cutting grown plants, and most of them were mentioned in the OP of this thread. Air layering has a higher rate of success across a wider group of cultivars but you are very unlikely to find air layered plants for sale (except perhaps in specialist bonsai circles).
     
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  10. AlainK

    AlainK Generous Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    Once again, quite true.

    But I've always wondered how this £10 'Ryusen' was produced : it's not grafted.

    April 2015, outside the Channel, a time when we were still one community :

    acerp-ryusen_150418a.jpg

    September 2019 :

    acerp-ryusen_190901a.jpg
     
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  11. MapleZen

    MapleZen New Member

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    As an aside, the prevalence of discounted JMs in the UK at outlets such as grocery stores continues to amaze me. In the Northeast US, your options are a nursery ($$$$), or -- for a few basic cultivars (dissectums mostly) -- a hardware store. The idea of finding a small discount Ryusen at ShopRite is insane to me!
     
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