Identification: Unknown sargentii hybrid, was Syodoi - mid-season, single-white, double-serrated

Discussion in 'Ornamental Cherries' started by Douglas Justice, Apr 13, 2009.

  1. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    The other mid-season single-white blossoms before double-serrated leaves

    48th and Raleigh - Killarney Park

    Killarney Park has, among others, these two great 'Somei-yoshino', the hill cherry that's part of the Catalog of single white, mid-season, double-serrated leaves emerge with blossoms thread, and then five of these trees that are different from these other two. The hill cherry in the catalog thread has only a few blossoms remaining and the new leaves are very bronze-coloured.
    20100318_Raleigh47th_Somei-yoshino_Cutler_DSC05542.jpg 20100318_Raleigh47th_HillCherry_Cutler_DSC05543.jpg 20100318_Raleigh48th_Tree1andSY_Cutler_DSC05597.jpg 20100318_Raleigh48th_Trees_Cutler_DSC05552.jpg
    The above photos, left - to - right
    'Somei-yoshino' - Hill Cherry - Compare these trees and 'Somei-yoshino' in background - the trees along 48th Ave that are the subject of this posting

    I think these five are the same as each other. I'm showing four of them separately. The blossoms are about 3cm - 'Somei-yoshino' size, very short pedicels without obvious hairs, serrated sepals, hardly any leaves emerging, but the one set I captured is out enough to see that they're double-serrated. I did not notice any stickiness, and I was unable to detect any scent.

    Tree 1
    20100318_Raleigh48th_Tree1_Cutler_DSC05553.jpg 20100318_Raleigh48th_Tree1_Cutler_DSC05554.jpg 20100318_Raleigh48th_Tree1_Cutler_DSC05555.jpg
    20100318_Raleigh48th_Tree1_Cutler_DSC05557.jpg 20100318_Raleigh48th_Tree1_Cutler_DSC05560.jpg

    Tree 3
    20100318_Raleigh48th_Tree3_Cutler_DSC05575.jpg 20100318_Raleigh48th_Tree3_Cutler_DSC05577.jpg 20100318_Raleigh48th_Tree3_Cutler_DSC05578.jpg 20100318_Raleigh48th_Tree3_Cutler_DSC05583.jpg

    Tree 4
    20100318_Raleigh48th_Tree4_Cutler_DSC05584.jpg 20100318_Raleigh48th_Tree4_Cutler_DSC05585.jpg

    Tree 5
    20100318_Raleigh48th_Tree5_Cutler_DSC05587.jpg 20100318_Raleigh48th_Tree5_Cutler_DSC05589.jpg 20100318_Raleigh48th_Tree5_Cutler_DSC05592.jpg 20100318_Raleigh48th_Tree5_Cutler_DSC05596.jpg 20100318_Raleigh48th_Tree5_Cutler_DSC05594.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2010
  2. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: The other mid-season single-white blossoms before double-serrated leaves

    Templeton, between 10th and 11th

    Joseph Lin just posted these photos in the Kensington/Cedar Cottage Neighbourhood. I don't see any leaves on his either. I'm posting them here because I think they look similar to the others.
     

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  3. Anne Eng

    Anne Eng Active Member 10 Years

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    E. 13 Avenue, between Clark and Glen Drives

    E. 13 Avenue, between Clark and Glen Drives. Several trees, buds, flowers and leaves.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 22, 2010
  4. Anne Eng

    Anne Eng Active Member 10 Years

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    VanDusen Gardens, Oak Street and W. 37 Avenue

    One tree at the northeast corner of VanDusen Gardens, Oak Street and W. 37 Avenue. Buds, flowers and emergent leaves on the same branch March, 2010.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 26, 2010
  5. Joseph Lin

    Joseph Lin Active Member 10 Years

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    Re: Catalog of single white, mid-season, double-serrated leaves emerge with blossoms

    Around 3:20 pm, March 18, 2010, I visited row of 15 Takasago and two Yama-zakura on East 46 Ave., 2 Somei-yoshino at East 47 Ave., one Yae-beni-shidare at Coleridge, 7 Yama-zakura and two Spire on East 48 Ave. in and around Killarney Park.

    two Yama-zakura on north side of East 46 Ave. one at #3745, the other on #3800s block
    2010_2745E46_Yama_Lin_3196_resize.jpg 2010_2745E46_Yama_Lin_3200_resize.JPG 2010_2745E46_Yama_Lin_3206_resize.JPG
    2010_2851E46_Yama_Lin_3219_resize.JPG 2010_2851E46_Yama_Lin_3220_resize.JPG 2010_2851E46_Yama_Lin_3221_resize.JPG
    2010_2851E46_Yama_Lin_3223_resize.JPG

    A different one behind two Somei-yoshino at East 47 Ave.

    3+4 Yama-zakura on on north side of East 48 Ave.
    2010_2801sE48_Yama_Lin_3272_resize.JPG 2010_2801sE48_Yama_Lin_3274_resize.JPG 2010_2801sE48_Yama_Lin_3284_resize.JPG
    2010_2801sE48_Yama_Lin_3286_resize.JPG 2010_2801sE48_Yama_Lin_3287_resize.JPG 2010_2801sE48_Yama_Lin_3289_resize.JPG
    2010_2801sE48_Yama_Lin_3292_resize.JPG 2010_2801sE48_Yama_Lin_3293_resize.JPG 2010_2801sE48_Yama_Lin_3295_resize.JPG
    2010_2801sE48_Yama_Lin_3296_resize.JPG 2010_2801sE48_Yama_Lin_3302_resize.JPG 2010_2801sE48_Yama_Lin_3304_resize.JPG
    2010_2801sE48_Yama_Lin_3305_resize.JPG 2010_2801sE48_Yama_Lin_3308_resize.JPG 2010_2801sE48_Yama_Lin_3348_resize.JPG
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2010
  6. Anne Eng

    Anne Eng Active Member 10 Years

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    Templeton Drive at E. 10 Avenue

    Three trees on the east side of Templeton Drive, south of E. 10 Avenue.
     

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  7. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Catalog of single white, mid-season, double-serrated leaves emerge with blossoms

    Douglas, I don't understand which are the possible P. sargentii hybrids. All these trees except the one at Raleigh at 47th are ones that I think the Parks Board calls sargentii (as they look like young ones on 6th and Penticton that I was told are on record as being sargentii), but they have double-serrated leaves, which is not a sargentii characteristic, nor is it a yama-zakura characteristic (except sometimes, since anything seems to go for yama-zakura).

    I think the Raleigh and 47th tree looks different enough from the rest of these to get a different name. And I think the 5th and Collingwood tree in posting 23 looks different again.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2011
  8. Douglas Justice

    Douglas Justice Active Member UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: Catalog of single white, mid-season, double-serrated leaves emerge with blossoms

    I was basing my speculations on the presence of sticky buds, which is supposed to be one of the distinctive features of P. sargentii. I think they're all mixed up genetically. We have some trees in this group of unknowns that have the flowers of one subspecies, the leaves of another and the buds of a completely different species. Either the trees are hybrids, or we don't have a good understanding of the characteristics of the species in the wild. Or both. Like I said before, I don't think we're going to be able to attach cultivar names to these.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2011
  9. eteinindia

    eteinindia Active Member VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Catalog of single white, mid-season, double-serrated leaves emerge with blossoms

    Which tree or trees have sticky buds, douglas? All of them? I know Sargentii has. But I didn’t touch these flowers on this thread myself or I can’t remember.

    I think it’ll take more time to identify the cultivars of those trees. But there are so many of them, so scouts might need a nickname for a while as Wendy said.

    I think there are 3 or 4 kinds of unknown cherries on this thread.
    No.1 is the tree in the Killaney Park near 2 Somei-yoshinos (Raleigh and E. 47).
    [Edited by wcutler 2011aug3: these have been either totally or for the most part removed from this thread, and can be found now in Yama-zakura - mid-season, single usually white]
    It is completely different from other trees. Wendy was very surprised it was in full bloom now. But I had a theory that this kind of trees becomes brown before it blooms. It was so last year, too. I saw the pictures of the cherry walk which looked brown with leaves and just a few flowers. I visited there 4 days later and found it in full bloom. I also think this one looks like Yama-zakura very much. We have to check the leaves. But even from the pictures of the flowers we can see it has more smooth leaves. Yama-zakura has smooth leaves and there usually is no hair around flowers and leaves.

    No.2 is the tree in the Quilchena Park. First I thought this was the same as Killaney Park one. But it is not. Quilchena flowers have red-brown pedicels. This tree also has double serration leaves.

    No.3 is the ones Anne and most of Joseph posted.
    (There might be No.4 if Joseph’s posting #10 is not Umineko. They look like Umineko, but they have rather fragile image than usual Umineko. I can’t see the tree myself so I can’t identify.
    Also #13 in VanDusen have different image. So this might be No.4 )

    I don’t think No.1 and No.2 need nicknames. Because they exist only at certain places. So we can call them by place names now.

    I’ll go back to No.3 again. Many new pictures are coming day by day. These aren’t very rare cherry in Vancouver. Perhaps these are the ones planted under the name of Korean Hill Cherry or Sargentii. Plenty of them in Vancouver. I think I know this kind of cherries.
    I think it is the cherry I used to call Pandora until I saw real Pandora last year. There are 3 trees of this kind on Marine Crescent. Soon after I joined to scouts, I asked unknowns on Marine Cr.. Douglas said there were Pandoras there. So I thought those unknown trees were Pandora and posted them as Pandora many times. And I wrote them as most ugly cherries in Vancouver.
    Now I can only find the photos of 3 trees on Marine Cr. and 1 in the Trout Lake Park. I have flower pictures comparing with real Pandora(Left side) last year. Flower shape (or petal shape) resembles to Umineko or Snow Goose but the color of new leaves are different.
    20080331_Kerrisdale_Izaki 027.jpg 20080402_Izaki 020.jpg 20080402_Izaki 018.jpg
    20080412_VictoriaDr&TroutLake_Somei-Yoshino_Izaki 010.jpg 20080412_VictoriaDr&TroutLake_Somei-Yoshino_Izaki 007.jpg
    20090417_Pandora_Arbutus&51vs50th&MarineCr._Izaki 009.jpg 20090416_Pandora_Arbutus&51vs50th&MarineCr_Izaki 002.jpg

    As far as I know, those trees start blooming without leaves (or just a bit of leaves). First petals are white, but after flowers open leaves grow and flowers become pinky color. When flowers finished they become greenish brown and not pretty at all. But autumn color of them is beautiful.
    20090407_MarineCr&50th_Somei-Yoshino&Accolade_Izaki 016.jpg 20090407_MarineCr&50th_Somei-Yoshino&Accolade_Izaki 017.jpg
    20080414_50th&Marine Cr_Somei-yoshinoAkebono.etc._Izaki 031.jpg 20080414_50th&Marine Cr_Somei-yoshinoAkebono.etc._Izaki 034.jpg

    If we need a nickname for a while, we can’t use the names which already exist like Sargentii. Also it is not good to use Japanese names (like Yama-zakura, now we know they aren’t Yama-zakura, or pure Takane-zakura, Kasumi-zakura or Ohshima-zakura) or some scientific names. Because people might connect them to the real cultivar and have wrong information of the cultivar. At this moment we don’t know which cultivar connect to these cherries. So we can’t call them ‘hybrid of Sargentii ’ .
    Wendy said ‘Korean Hill Cherry’ is a funny name, but for Japanese like me, Hill Cherry or something like this is good. Because we don’t connect it directly to Yama-zakura or other cultivar names. I think Hill Cherry is a not good translation of Yama-zakura. First I heard Hill Cherry, I didn’t connect it to Yama-zakura. Yama can’t be hill. Yama has a very wide meaning, and we call hilly place Yama, but when people call it Yama, it’s not Oka (hill in Japanese) First I connect Hill Cherry to Takane-zakura (P. nipponica). Takane means High peak so it can’t be. But still I thought about it. I might connect it because Takane-zakura have double serration leaves. Korean Mountain Cherry is all right. But for me Korean Yama-zakura is very funny name. Koreans won’t use Japanese word for their wild cherry. Japanese won’t call native cherry ‘Korean’ Yama-zakura.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 3, 2011
  10. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Catalog of single white, mid-season, double-serrated leaves emerge with blossoms

    Actually, I complained about "Sold as Korean Hill Cherry", thinking that was going to be an awkward name to use in sentences and as page headings.

    Mariko, are you proposing Korean Mountain Cherry rather than Korean Hill Cherry, or do those mean the same to you?
     
  11. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    We've renamed these again, if you consider "unknown" to be a new name. Douglas Justice has become unconvinced about the 'Syodoi' connection, and though he emailed me that he thinks these have had a run-in with either P. incisa or P. nipponica (well, he didn't say exactly that), the closest he's willing to come up with, since I need to call them something on the map, is P. sargentii hybrid.

    P. spontanea
    hybrid was runner up. I thought we may as well prefix the name here with "unknown", but on the map, these are listed under "S" for "Sargentii hybrid".

    So far, no-one has taken seriously my suggestion that we should get to give them a new name.
     
  12. Douglas Justice

    Douglas Justice Active Member UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society 10 Years

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    Has anyone seen the cherry known as Mazakura? According to Kuitert and others, it is commonly used as rootstock in Japan. I've yet to see a description or photograph of its leaves or flowers. I wonder this might be our mystery tree? Kuitert notes that Mazakura has, as one of its parents, the Chinese P. pseudocerasus. The rootstock 'Colt' is another P. pseudocerasus hybrid, and I note that while P. pseudocerasus is described as having hairy pedicels, 'Colt' does not display any hair. Evidently, the influence of P. pseudocerasus confers excellent rootability to the stems and a slight dwarfing effect on the scion. This tree is on my propagation list, so perhaps we'll see if it roots easily. Not knowing the identity of this tree is still really bugging me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2013
  13. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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  14. eteinindia

    eteinindia Active Member VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Hi, Douglas and Wendy,
    Im sorry I couldnt write about Mazakura soon.
    I also thought it might be Mazakura because it was a good hypothesis. But I couldnt find any pictures of Mazakura, so I didnt write. Now I ordered two books but it will take a bit of time to get them.
    But today I finally find a picture of Mazakura in Website.
    The translation of Google is wrong as always so.
    My translation is: Mazakura is very easy to root by cutting, so it is used for a rootstock of Somei-yoshino and many Sato-zakuras. It is thought to be a hybrid of Shina-mizakura and other cherry (Oshima-zakura?). Generally, it is only used for rootstock so flowers are very rare to be seen.
    I think the flower of the picture is different from ones of the mysterious tree. But I still think it might be Mazakura. Because I think Mazakura is a general term so flowers can be both single and double. It can vary.

    Also I find a webpage which shows the list of the scientific names books, webs and parks use.

    Source; Scientific name
    Classification of cherry subgenus; Prunus lammesiana Wils. cv. Multiplex
    Sakura book; Prunus lammesiana cv. Multiplex
    Sakura Collections (THE FLOWER ASSOCIATION OF JAPAN); Prunus lannesiana 'Multiplex
    Flowering Cherries of Japan New Edition; Cerasus 'Multiplex'
    Forestry and Forest Products Research Institute; Prunus lannesiana (Carr.) Wilson cv. Multiplex
    Institute of Genetics V5 (April, 2011); Cerasus Sato-zakura Group 'Multiplex'
     
  15. Douglas Justice

    Douglas Justice Active Member UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society 10 Years

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    Thank you Mariko! It now seems pretty clear to me that our mystery tree is not Mazakura. From the image in the link, the leaves appear to have marginal teeth with aristate (hair) tips. The flowers also look quite different, and they are clearly corymbose, with a definite peduncle and small leafy bract where the pedicels diverge.

    Wendy is currently suggesting that it looks like Prunus (Cerasus) nipponica, which I think is a better fit. However, P. nipponica evidently has more polished looking bark on older branches (no evidence of this on ours) and leaves with stalked glands (I can't get a good view of the glands in the posted pictures of our plants). I can't find any reference to sticky buds, either. Otherwise, it's not a bad match, and according to Collingwood Ingram, "Like its relative, Prunus incisa, the Nipponese cherry appears to be very prone to cross fertilization, and out of a batch of plants raised from seeds sent to me from the Arnold Arboretum, not one has come true to type."

    I suspect the trees are seedlings of P. nipponica, derived from fruits collected from a plant that was near to a P. sargentii (or vice versa). This would explain to some extent both the combination of characters and the variation among the individual trees that we're seeing.
     
  16. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Rootstock sprouts from a named, grafted Prunus avium orchard cultivar on Camano Island are producing quite hairy parts with single pink flowers and reddish bark - I think I talked about it here before. Meanwhile I am growing another cherry rootstock (Krymsk 5 = 'VSL-2') to see what that looks like. So far the tree has grown above my head without flowering. Otherwise it looks like it could pass for a Japanese flowering cherry.

    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...50&s1=PP15723.PN.&OS=PN/PP15723&RS=PN/PP15723
     
  17. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Here are three photos (all posted before) sort-of in support of a Takane-zakura, Prunus nipponica, hybrid. There are no glands on the leaf tips in the end of July photos, but they're supposed to have been "stalked" - might glands have been on those leaf tip stalks earlier in the season? The bark photo in our Flowering Cherries of Japan (Obha, Kawasaki and Tanaka; Yama-Kei Publishers, 2007) isn't shinier than bits of the bark on the old limb here.
    20090729_6thSlocanTree1_SingleWhite_Cutler_5606c.jpg 20090729_GraveleyKaslow_SingleWhiteTree1_Cutler_5654.jpg 20090729_GraveleyKaslow_SingleWhiteTree2_Cutler_5695.jpg

    I thought the trees would be growing nearer to a Kinki-mame-zakura, P. incisa var. kinkiensis) to come up with the short pedicels, as shown here in Anne Eng's photo, but the habit of that species in the book photos looks a lot sparcer and shrubbier than our trees.
    20130331_Windsor33_SargentiiHyb_Eng_977.jpg

    We have two weeks to come up with a name! We'd like it in the next edition of the Ornamental Cherries guide, since there really are a lot of these trees here, including at least two whole blocks, so it would be nice to be able to help people recognize when they're looking at one of them, but we have to call it something.
     
  18. Douglas Justice

    Douglas Justice Active Member UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society 10 Years

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    Michigan State has a great sweet cherry rootstock site. Their chart shows that 'VSL-2' is P. fruticosa x P. serrulata.

     
  19. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Notice that the same table gives P. serrulata var. lannesiana for 'L-2'. I bet the listing for 'VSL-2' was supposed to be (P. fruticosa X) P. serrulata var. lannesiana also, but the var. lannesiana part got cut off because of the size of the cell.
     
  20. Douglas Justice

    Douglas Justice Active Member UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society 10 Years

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    The glands are on the petioles at the base of the leaf blade. You can just see a couple at the far left in the first image. On P. nipponica, they should stand up on little stalks, rather than laying flat as they do on most other Sato-zakura.

    According to a number of authors, Prunus nipponica is supposed have lustrous, chestnut-coloured bark, something like that of P. serrula (!). Indeed, Kuitert and Ingam both mention that it's an easy way to identify the species.
     
  21. eteinindia

    eteinindia Active Member VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Wendy, you can see glands at the bottom of this page of Konohana-sakuya.
     
  22. eteinindia

    eteinindia Active Member VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    I think it can't be Takane-zakura nor Mame-zakura (both have P Nipponica in their scientific nnames). Because they are basically small trees or something like shrubs. They have small leaves. Flowering Cherries in Japan says Takane-zakura has leaves of 3 to 7 cm. The small book (The handbook of flowering Cherries in Japan) has pictures of leaves for every cherry. They look like almost same sizes but you should check rulers printed beside the pictures. 1 cm ruler on Takane-zakura and Mame-zakura leaves are very large.
    It says Takane-zakura leaves are 5 to 7 cm long and Mame-zakura leaves are 2 to 4 cm long.
    Kinki-mame-zakura (P74-75 of Floring Cherries in Japan) also has small leaves and flowers. The book says it has obovate or broad obovate shaped leaves with length around 3 to 6 cm, width 2 to 4 cm and round petals with 1 to 1.3 cm.
    As far as I can remember the mysterious tree has medium sized leaves and flowers.

    I'll post pictures of Takane-zakura and Chishima-zakura (northern variation of Takane-zakura seen in Hokkaido and Sakhalin Island of Russia). I saw them in Hokkaido. (I’m sorry I didn’t post them before. I didn’t post my Hokkaido trip in 2011 and this year I posted day1 & 2 of my Hokkaido trip but not day 3 yet.)

    100 yen coin is 2.2 cm across.
    Takane-zakura at Nijukkenkaido in Hokkaido
    20110516-2_Hokkaido_Nijukkenkaido_Izaki 089_Takane-zakura.jpg 20110516-2_Hokkaido_Nijukkenkaido_Izaki 089B_Takane-zakura.jpg 20110516-2_Hokkaido_Nijukkenkaido_Izaki 093_Takane-zakura.jpg

    Chishima-zakura at Nijukkenkaido
    20110516-2_Hokkaido_Nijukkenkaido_Izaki 073_Chishima-zakura.jpg 20110516-2_Hokkaido_Nijukkenkaido_Izaki 075_Chishima-zakura.jpg 20110516-2_Hokkaido_Nijukkenkaido_Izaki 077_Chishima-zakura.jpg
    Chishima-zakura at Oniushi Park near Hakodate in Hokkaido
    20130522_Hokkaido_OniuahiPark_Izaki 062.jpg 20130522_Hokkaido_OniuahiPark_Izaki 068.jpg 20130522_Hokkaido_OniuahiPark_Izaki 065.jpg

    I think I posted Mame-zakura somewhere but I can’t remember. And I haven’t post day 2 of my Kyoto trip and Fuji trip 2012.
    Mame-zakura in Kyoto Botanical Garden (just started blooming)
    20130326_Kyoto3_Izaki 154.jpg 20130326_Kyoto3_Izaki 156.jpg 20130326_Kyoto3_Izaki 157.jpg
    Mame-zakura?? in wild sight near Mt.Fuji
    20110430_Fuji_Mame-zakura_Izaki_3637.jpg 20110430_Fuji_Mame-zakura_Izaki_3663.jpg 20110430_Fuji_Mame-zakura_Izaki_3643.jpg
    20110430_Fuji_Mame-zakura_Izaki_3684.jpg 20110430_Fuji_Mame-zakura_Izaki_3701.jpg 20110430_Fuji_Mame-zakura_Izaki_3707.jpg

    I'm not sure about hybrids of them.
    But Flowering cherries in Japan shows cherries influenced by Takane-zakura from page 168 to 173. I think there’s no cherry which looks like the mysterious cherry. But the picture of Taihaku on 168-169 reminds me the mysterious tree. Taihaku in Japan doesn’t have as large flowers as Vancouver one.

    By the way, now I'm glowing a cherry which might be Mazakura. It has some double shredded leaves. I bought a new Bonsai Asahiyama because old Bonsais died out last summer.
    It had some shootingshooting which had leaves not like Asahiyama from the bottom of the tree. I keep one of them. So it might have flowers next year.
    20130403_BonsaiAsahiyama_Izaki 001.jpg 20130403_BonsaiAsahiyama_Izaki 005.jpg 20130403_BonsaiAsahiyama_Izaki 003.jpg
    20130428_Bonsai-Asahiyama_Izaki 002.jpg 20130428_Bonsai-Asahiyama_Izaki 005.jpg 20130428_Bonsai-Asahiyama_Mazakura_Izaki 003.jpg
    20130802_BonsaiAsahiyama_Izaki 001.jpg 20130802_BonsaiAsahiyama_Asahiyama_Izaki 011.jpg 20130802_BonsaiAsahiyama_Mazakura_Izaki 015.jpg

    Anyway at this moment the mysterious tree can be connecting with some Japanese variety and also western variety. We have to think and search very widely with open mind.
     
  23. eteinindia

    eteinindia Active Member VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Location:
    Tokyo, Japan but I still miss Vancouver
    I wondered about calling this mysterious cherry Korean Hill Cherry again. So I asked one specialist I know his e-mail address. He is Mr. Fujiwara, the owner (manager? executor?) of the cherry website called Konohana-sakuya. His professional is Tree Doctor, the licensed gardener who takes care of the old and sick tree, and researcher of the cherries.
    The Japanese name for Korean Hill cherry is Kasumi-zakura. But he said this couldn’t be Kasumi-zakura or the variety of Kasumi-zakura. Kasumi-zakura blooms with green leaves like Oshima-zakura but sizes and shapes of flowers and leaves are different. Also it is umbellate inflorescence.
    These are the pictures of Kasumi-zakura I saw in Shinjuku Gyoen and Oniushi Park in Hokkaido.
    Shinjuku Gyoen
    20130404_ShinjukuGyoen_Izaki 098_Kasumi-zakura.jpg 20130404_ShinjukuGyoen_Izaki 101_Kasumi-zakura.jpg
    20130404_ShinjukuGyoen_Izaki 106_Kasumi-zakura.jpg 20130404_ShinjukuGyoen_Izaki 105_Kasumi-zakura.jpg
    Oniushi Park
    20130522_Hokkaido_OniuahiPark_Izaki 009_Kasumi-zakura.jpg 20130522_Hokkaido_OniuahiPark_Izaki 011_Kasumi-zakura.jpg
    20130522_Hokkaido_OniuahiPark_Izaki 014_Kasumi-zakura.jpg 20130522_Hokkaido_OniuahiPark_Izaki 016_Kasumi-zakura.jpg
    20130522_Hokkaido_OniuahiPark_Izaki 017_Kasumi-zakura.jpg 20130522_Hokkaido_OniuahiPark_Izaki 019_Kasumi-zakura.jpg 20130522_Hokkaido_OniuahiPark_Izaki 020_Kasumi-zakura.jpg
    20130522_Hokkaido_OniuahiPark_Izaki 022_Kasumi-zakura.jpg 20130522_Hokkaido_OniuahiPark_Izaki 023_Kasumi-zakura.jpg

    He said it might be a cherry from Korea. There is a cherry called Cheju-zakura in National Institute for Genetics in Shizuoka Prefecture. It is a wild variety of cherry from Jeju Island of Korea, which Koreans believe the origin of Somei-yoshino. But Oshima-zakura is not native to Korea so this is the hybrid between Edo-higan and Oyama-zakura (P. sargentii x P. spaciana). Both are native to Korea.
    This is the picture of Cheju-zakura from the book “Cherries of National Institute for Genetics. It is not taken well but now they don’t open the webpage to the public. So I copied from the book.
    Jeju Cherry.JPG
    It has pink flowers but shapes of the petals are very similar to our mysterious cherry. It is a wild cherry so flowers can vary.
    Mr. Fujiwara wasn’t sure about the shapes of the leaves but it might have some connection to the Korean cherries.

    Anyway, as it is not Kasumi-zakura, so it isn’t good to write the scientific name there even if you call it Korean Hill Cherry, the name it was introduced to Vancouver.
    But I prefer to call it as mysterious cherry at this moment.
     

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