to plant maple trees well

Discussion in 'Maples' started by alex66, Mar 11, 2007.

  1. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Tanks for reply Acyvas I find similar product in Europe!
     
  2. richardbeasley@comcast.net

    richardbeasley@comcast.net Active Member Maple Society

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    You get all this microbial action and more from using humate, it is the very best amendment by a thousand fold, if you don't use it you are cheating yourself. It cost about 90 US cent a pound. You only need to use 200 gm per tree if it has a caliber of 2 cm.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2007
  3. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    And water ?which is the rigth quantity for young plant ?everyday?I live in the zone 9 and use pine bark around the trunk..please reply!
     
  4. richardbeasley@comcast.net

    richardbeasley@comcast.net Active Member Maple Society

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    Do you know how well the water drain at the site that you planted the maple. Zone 9 does not say much Alex it may be a very cool Zone 9 not like a Zone 9 in the Americas. The size of the tree is also important, in general Maple like tons of water but it likes if full of oxygen this mean it likes lot of drainage. Thank about it, it is usually a tree in the mountains or highlands of Japan a temperate climate with dally rain fall of about 1 to 4 cm, this also mean constancy this is very important, so this is up to you decide what you can do, can you put a little water on it every day, or a lot once a week. Now there are exception some are very big exception depending on your cultivar. Did look up any information about humate? Pull the pine bark back a bit form the base of the tree, after it is established you can then start to slowly build the soil up to cover the graft if it is real low. It will take several year to do it maybe longer.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2007
  5. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Ok! Richard tanks (°-°)I change my method in the next season,at the moment I have use chimical fertilize , natural method is important for me......
     
  6. acyvas

    acyvas Member

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    I am in zone 9 as well and the air here is incredibly dry. I have always been told to do very deep waterings about once a week to two weeks. This is for two reasons; the water here is very high in Boron which when watering frequently causes a lot of leaf burn and makes for hideous fall foliage. The second reason is that the deep watering helps the plant form very deep roots which help the tree cool itself during the hot dry summers we have and more tolerable of drout and heavy sunlight.

    Speaking of salt, does anyone know of an efficient means of removing Boron & salts from tap water?
     
  7. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Does anyone know of Japanese Maples with roots deeper than about 25 cm (10")?
    They are known for having superficial roots (in their natural habitat it rains a lot during the Summer). I do a lot of transplantation every year and I can attest that roots are not very deep. Of course if your soil is perfect, porous loam the tree may be tempted to go down a bit more. But in most gardens deep soils are rather unfriendly (i.e.: heavy clay that may be waterlogged during the Winter) and maple roots stay in the surface.

    I for one water frequently (every day) for a very short time (15 to 20 min drip irrigation) to keep constant humidity in the root area (which is heavily mulched).

    Gomero
     
  8. richardbeasley@comcast.net

    richardbeasley@comcast.net Active Member Maple Society

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    Just dig a hole and put the tree in thats all you have to do and then water it twice a week, Maple do have one deep root, if you buy one of any size the tap root is cut off and it never grows back. Tap roots are very important and never should be cut.
     
  9. Liz

    Liz Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    One of the reasons we use mulching a lot is because the Maple is not a deep rooting plant. We are very dry and hot in summer. Normaly I don't water once the tree is established but this last couple of years it has been very dry as we were in an El Ninio pattern which means drought. Currently on severe water restrictions. Hence we get very creative gardening in this sort of new climate we are experiencing. I found a slow water drip or trickle for about quater of an hour twice a week into the mulch near the stem has kept my Maples very alive. Waiting for the autumn leaves at the moment.

    Liz
     
  10. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Untrue

    I agree. If you do it every other day, in addition to keeping it alive, it will thrive.

    Gomero
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2007
  11. richardbeasley@comcast.net

    richardbeasley@comcast.net Active Member Maple Society

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    I have been wondering where my rain is and now I know we are still under that EL Ninio, it does not rain in Virginia under this condition as well . We get our rain from hurricanes, which we are expecting a bumper crop of.
     
  12. acyvas

    acyvas Member

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    Well we get about 12 inces per rain year here and the humidity never gets much higher than 50% and the low being 12%. I'd say Virginia is probably a lot more moist.
     
  13. schusch

    schusch Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hi-

    I have a couple of questions about the watering systems you use: I've noticed there are at least two different types - one where water drips out of evenly spaced holes along the tube, and another where the 'hose' or 'tube' is completely porous and water comes out of many small openings all around the tube. Is there a difference in use between the two?
    The other is: where do you place the tube in relation to the tree? If you place it close to the stem, aren't you missing most feeder roots since they tend to be much further away from the stem after a couple of years?

    Schusch
     
  14. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Acyvas I have find one valid method for removing salt of the water (I have similar problem)but for many litres of water is very,very expansive, is similar method that some nations use for drink the water of the sea! The ancient Roman collected the rain in the reserviors!! Is valid again, the cost is expansive to start, but the water is very good for garden. Schusch the first tube is for lawn, the second for plant and flowers.
    Next week I plant another acer with your adivce tank you for reply Alex (°^°)
     
  15. kaydye

    kaydye Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I first used mycorrhizae tablets when they were sent to me with an order from Frank Byles. He highly recommends them. This thread reminded me I was running low on them, so I did a search and found a site that sells the tablets. I ordered some so will let you know if they look the same as the ones I got from Byles.

    http://americanatural.com/index.html

    Does anyone have any thoughts about the tablets vs. the liquid? Frank recommended 8-10 per caliper inch of tree.
    Kay Dye
     
  16. richardbeasley@comcast.net

    richardbeasley@comcast.net Active Member Maple Society

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    I have thought a lot about water and why things perk up so well after a good rain. My water comes from the James river as in King James the guy that wrote the Protestants Bible, sorry the guy that decided what was to be put in it. Well un-filtered tap water will keeps some things alive but that's about it, filtered water makes them grow pretty well but distilled water is the ticket, rain water is distilled water. I sometimes use RO water it is as good as distilled. I have to, as in must use it for my ground orchids, that's the secret to growing hardy orchids, deionized revers-osmosis that is.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2007
  17. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Today I order acer Distylum I read that prefer acid soils my land is PH neutral ,I planted maple and after lower PH or lower PH before planted acer ?Which is the good method for lower PH ?Please reply ('-')alex
     
  18. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Alex,some peat mixed with the soil or oak leaf mulch will help lower ph.
     
  19. richardbeasley@comcast.net

    richardbeasley@comcast.net Active Member Maple Society

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    I don't know which acidic organic matter is available in Fara Sabina, in the US we use peat moss from Canada. I would expect that you will need some type of pine or fir bark that is real fine and then work it in deep and wide. I would put in a cubic meter of fine bark from any evergreen tree that is common there. I would till it in and out to as wide at the tree will spread and as deep as the tiller will put it or as deep as the roots will go. This is to be a long term fix because you have a soil that it very borderline. I would refrain from using any chemicals that lower pH because it will damage the overall soil structure and natural biological processes, use humate to buffer the high pH as well as encourage the biological processes which creates a living soil enviroment which is best for suppporting any plant. The pH in Japan is not real low like it is here in eastern Virginia. I raised my soil pH from 5.4 to a 6.7 and the resutls were dramatic, so don't let anyone tell you pH is not all that important, it is extremely important. Do it right the fist time and be done with it,save a tree and some money.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2007
  20. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I have 6 big pinus Picea ,Is possible to use the leaves and pinecone of this pinus for lower PH?Acer Distylum is important for my collection because I prefere have a dendrologic collection whit many species and low cultivar tanks for reply alex [*-*]
     
  21. schusch

    schusch Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I don't now about the pH needs of that particular maple, but as far as I now it is easier to raise the pH of a soil than to lower it. The only manner I have read about is to add granulated sulfur. There is a technique where you drill many holes around the rootzone, and place - I think - sulfur and some fertilizer in these small holes. This is once chlorosis has been detected. The tree can apparently use nutrients from such lowered pH sources, even if the soil's pH is elsewhere too high for adequate nutrient intake. (Again, see Whitcomb's book - the one I mentioned somewhere in this thread.)
    If you are dealing with shrub sized plants, like rhododendrons you can construct a raised bed, with a different type of soil - this works as opposed to amending a small area around a tree, which can lead to problems with water movement. But with big trees the raised bed would have to be really big. May be someone has seen this done?
    (By the way, if you have a soil that is neutral, that is pretty good for a garden soil, since you can grow a great number of plants, japanese maples included. Are you sure this particular maple needs a low pH? A quick, unscientific google search yielded acceptable soils ranging from acid to neutral and beyond...)
     
  22. richardbeasley@comcast.net

    richardbeasley@comcast.net Active Member Maple Society

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    Dag gone Alex where are you finding these words man. Um pine tree bark will lower pH slowly over time, your pH of 7 is OK as long as it is not over 7. The addition of pine leaves break down real slow and the pine cones will aerate the soil it will take a long time for it to effect the pH you need that bark in bulk. The neutral pH is not bad per say many Acers do well in a neutral pH but maybe a bit better in a slightly acid soil. We may be cutting hairs here, but I am a hair cuter that is just the way I am. It may be the results of some form of mental illness. I know the symptom of perfectionism is evidence of something not all that right. I know one thing extreme anything is not good. On the other hand a truck load of pine bark along with 25 K of humate would round it out real nice for you. What you really need is water holding capacity and this would do it, in time. Alex these roots are on the surface of the ground, they are only a meter down, so this means to you that they dry out very fast, and I bet it is pretty rockey soil too, so you need that water holding capasity. If you can lower the pH too that is great, sulfur is ok but it will not hold water very long. Più importante è l'acqua, capisce
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2007
  23. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Capisco that water is important Richard ! A local nurseyman advice for lower PH "Sequestrene" two times for year, he use in private garden for azalee and rhododendro as well for maple?plese reply[°-°]alex
     
  24. richardbeasley@comcast.net

    richardbeasley@comcast.net Active Member Maple Society

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    Japanese Maples don't want an acidic soil as a rhododendrons or azaleas unless the maple is from china, there pH is lower then on the island. The pH for most japonicums are 6.5 to 6.9. Unless he is and you know he is a Japanese Maple expert what he says means next to nothing, I feel it is almost worst then next to nothing. People like to think they are experts at everything especially doctors and PhD, however I have met many exception to the rules. You can only believe about 20 to 30 % of what people tell you. So let start right now, you can only believe 20% of what I say, the rest just what I may think may be correct and I want to sound like a big shot. In all reality the person that told me this tad bit of so called fact, was indeed told to them by another person that thought he was a really big hot shot, maybe a doctor or someone like that, but he was dead wrong as well. The really big shots know they are a lot smarter then anyone else, that is why he had to become a doctor in the fist place.

    Have you had the soil tested for pH by a real lab and do you know for sure the pH is 7 which really is not a problem any ways and how much sulfur in the soil right now does it need more or is it maxed out and needs no more, sulfur is real important to plant growth but to much of a good thing can be bad except the humic acids. I believe a pH of 6.9 is ten times more acidic then 7.0, you may want to look that up in a book, but beware print is often very wrong as well, but less likely. So remember the 20% rule, you have to see it fist t is on 80% true see it twice 90% see it three times well if you don't believe it then you may be crazy, or you were crazy the fist two times. Don't worry so much about it, 7 is fine really just put in organic materials and it will take care of it's self, don't buy chemicals, unless you need a fungicide.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2007
  25. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    ok Richard your advice for me 85%...
    Is good planted small acer? (pot /one or two years grafting)or is best after when acer is 50/60 cm ..Why? tanks
    P.S. 100%for my mother!!(I'm Italian ,spaghetti,mandolino,etc..)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2007

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