Tiny plant growing on sandstone id please

Discussion in 'Plants: Identification' started by nitrogeninthesoil, Sep 22, 2024.

  1. nitrogeninthesoil

    nitrogeninthesoil Active Member 10 Years

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    Hello.

    Recently found this tiny plant growing on a trail in northern VA, I think Frederick County. Substrate is largely sandstone, shale, slate. It was growing with moss on a bank. Grass leaf in pic with unknown is a species of Dichanthelium so gives an idea of size.

    Thanks for any ideas.
     

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  2. nitrogeninthesoil

    nitrogeninthesoil Active Member 10 Years

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    Could it be basal leaves from Houstonia species?

    Decided not Epilobium…it’s Houstonia.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2024
  3. nitrogeninthesoil

    nitrogeninthesoil Active Member 10 Years

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    I found a Houstonia (I think) with larger basal leaf rosette….but I think this rosette (red circle)is different from smaller rosettes (blue circle)…they are not the same species?
     

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    Last edited: Oct 2, 2024
  4. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    I would lean same if I encountered that in the wild given young plant morphology seems to have more variability overall, but... I don't have any good resources in our library to help.
     
  5. nitrogeninthesoil

    nitrogeninthesoil Active Member 10 Years

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    Thank you for your input! I think they are different but I cannot find any reference pic that pushes me in any particular direction for the original unknown. Looking at my circles I think blue circle has 2 different species in it. One characteristic that seems to maybe strongly indicate this is that I believe the original unknown in first post has “hairs” or “bristles” (sorry botanical terms become jumbled in my head) on edge of leaves whereas the leaf edges of the second unknown (Houstonia?) are glabrous. I shall have to wait for flowers. On this trail, which is within an open, mostly dry acidic, slate woodland, I have had luck id’ing plants unknown to me by looking around for dead flower or seed stalks but these little plants are baffling me….they have to flower sometime! I am guessing that not finding any sign of flowers or seed stalks, dead or alive, would virtually eliminate Asteraceae? Maybe just wishful thinking…
     
  6. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Neither of those look particularly asteraceous to me. Have you looked at Brassicaceae for the first?
     
  7. nitrogeninthesoil

    nitrogeninthesoil Active Member 10 Years

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    Thank you!

    On your advice I have gone through all of the species in Brassicaceae, using county list for Shenandoah/Frederick counties from the VA plant atlas and I am not seeing a match…not to say this is a definitive list but the unknown was fairly frequent along trail so I would think it would make it to list in plant atlas. Any other families that it could be part of?
     
  8. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Plantaganaceae? Some Plantago virginica photos look similar to me. From Plantago virginica (Dwarf Plantain, Hoary Plantain, Paleseed Indian-wheat, Pale Seed Plantain, Paleseed Plantain, Southern Plantain, Virginia Plantain) | North Carolina Extension Gardener Plant Toolbox:
     
  9. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Not sure if the venation is quite right for that Plantago, but given how hoary it is with the reflective wet leaves in the photo, it's hard to see them.
     
  10. nitrogeninthesoil

    nitrogeninthesoil Active Member 10 Years

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    Thank you for your input. Don’t think it’s Plantago though. Venation is absent, a paler green than Houstonia but I would not say hoary and rosette is much much smaller. I did not see any rosettes of unknown that were bigger than about 2-3 cm in diameter… rosettes are very small. Also, in most plantagos that I see there is some evidence of seed stalk but in the case of this plant there are no recognisable flower or seed stalks.
     
  11. Sulev

    Sulev Contributor

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  12. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Draba verna, pretty sure.
     
  13. nitrogeninthesoil

    nitrogeninthesoil Active Member 10 Years

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    I considered Draba/Erophila verna and the pic in the link from Sulev, in particular, looks similar to the unknown but I discounted this plant because it is apparently an annual that is very hard to spot once it has gone to seed early in the yr…I had no trouble finding the unknown this Fall…unless of course the unknown grows from seed in Fall and overwinters as a rosette but annuals don’t usually do this? Also, wouldn’t there be evidence of flower or seed stem?

    The other reason I discounted it is that multiple sources say that this species is found along roadsides and similar disturbed habitats. Where I found it was disturbed in that it was on a walking trail but it was found among intact areas off the trail so didn’t quite fit the definition of disturbed that was in my head.

    All that said it could very well be this one, so thank you for the suggestions!
     
  14. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Yes, it is a winter annual, germinating in the winter and flowering in the early early spring (or even wintertime here).
     
  15. Sulev

    Sulev Contributor

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    My potato field is full of young whitlowgrass plants at the moment. They sprout in September and survive under the snow, starting flowering as soon as the snow is gone. But they are tiny and I never look them so closely. I suspected Hieracium, because it seemed to me, that your photo is of a larger plant. When I found the photo from the German site, then I was pretty sure, that your plant is whitlowgrass.
    In Estonian this plant is called "varakevadik" (~"(a plant of ) Early Spring"), because it blooms very very early.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2024
  16. nitrogeninthesoil

    nitrogeninthesoil Active Member 10 Years

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    Yes, probably it is varakevadik ! I’m not 100% convinced…I know you (Sulev) said you didn’t examine it carefully because it is so small but I know many people have walked this trail and reported plants in inaturalist and yet there is not a single mention of this species from that area, the colour seems different and it doesn’t look look quite like what I saw, however, I saw that Draba verna was part of a “complex” so maybe it can be extremely variable. I bought a Draba ramossissima for my rock garden…I think that’s the only other Draba or whitlowgrass in Virginia and it is definitely not that one so for now until I see flowers in very early Spring I shall accept this id. Thank you both very much!
     

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