The stars and the flops

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Gomero, May 28, 2008.

  1. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Each new Spring we all watch eagerly the leafing out of the new additions to our gardens. Some plants do confirm the expectations placed on them (the stars) and some give us a lot of disappointment (the flops). However sometimes you have to wait another season to confirm ranking.

    In my case, this Spring, the indisputable star is 'Shirazz', a really outstanding cultivar which I strongly recommend. Second and third places for 'Hana matoi', which finally is behaving as it should be: an almost pink dissectum; and 'Olsen Frosted Strawberry', surprisingly pleasant with not-found-elsewhere combination of colors.

    For the 'Flops', the indisputable winner is 'Dwarf Shishi'; I bought it leafless in the Winter 2006/2007 without doing much research on it. With a name like that I thought: wow a dwarf Shishigashira, great!. But, in fact, as we say in Spanish it is a 'tomadura de pelo', a worthless plant that will certainly end up in the compost heap, a drab green palmatum with absolutely nothing worth mentioning.
    Second place in the category is for 'Aki Tsuma gaki': nothing to do with Tsuma gaki, another 'tomadura de pelo', another drab, green palmatum.
    Many of the seedlings that now sprout all over my garden are much more interesting that any of those two 'selections'.

    Gomero
     
  2. NJACER

    NJACER Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Gomero,

    I have just added two A.P. 'Shirazz' to my plants and they were in 10 gal containers and show great color. I had a fresh graft this year and was very happy to locate the larger trees. A.P. 'Hana matoi' I just received as a fresh graft to evaluate this year and will ahve to wait a year or two. I will keep my eyes open for an 'Olsen Frosted Strawberry'. You always provide great input on your cultivars and I will look to add one to my collection. I am not familiar with the two you list as flops but I know the feeling. Many of the seedlings in the garden show amazing colors and attract more and more attention from visitors.

    Ed
     
  3. paxi

    paxi Active Member

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    Great thread idea and I'm going to pipe in even though I have a total of about 10 or 11 very young trees.

    1) Stars:

    Baldsmith - ive said my peace regarding this in the photo gallery thread, but pleasantly surpised the beautiful (up close) colors of this one. It wins first because it exceeds expectations

    waterfall - great spring green color and shape; the young tree really seems to "float"

    mikawa yatsubusa - the amazing form is just like I've seen in all the pictures

    2) Neither/nor:

    Tie: Red dragon, crimson queen, tamuke yama: all have pretty much performed as advertised. Problem is, that at least at this young stage, and with my young eyes, I can't really tell the difference between them.

    3) Flops:

    Wilson's Pink - Not much pink yet. Moved the tree a bit with a hint of hopefully what's to come in years ahead.

    Orange Dream - this is only a flop on my part. Nothing wrong with the tree - I just put into ground at the worst time possible and it's dead.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2008
  4. xman

    xman Active Member

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    Great thread. For me

    1) Stars:
    Purple ghost the best spring color and still is holding its color even though it is just a 1 gallon plant, Orange ghost very consistent and stands out in the yard.

    2) Neither/nor: Just like Paxi, I cannot tell the difference between my crimson queen, red dragon, inabe shidare and tamukeyama. I know there are subtle differences but nothing outstanding. These have done good, but in a very small yard with two of each it just does not provide any color or texture difference.

    3) Flops: Abigail rose did not see much if any pink at all in spring. It is still a 1 gallon will see if does better next year.
    Aureum Golden Fullmoon, nice tree but keeps getting smaller and smaller every year as it keeps losing big branches. After 3 years with me it is about half the size it was when I got it. Is this what is called a natural bonsai :)


    xman
     
  5. mattzone5b

    mattzone5b Active Member

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    Location:
    Winchester,Va. US
    Stars: Waterfall- very vigorous growth, full mounded structure and takes sun well
    Orange Dream- gorgeous spring color and new leaves still pushing
    Tamukeyama- Average but reliably nice, strong red with great sun tolerance

    Flops: Germaine's Gyration- no new growth and doesn't seem to take sun well
    Garnet- supposedly fast grower when young but there isn't much yet
    Aconitifolium- so slow, maybe in 15 years I can actually plant this?

    My flops are 1-2 year grafts so maybe that is why there are not impressive, time will tell.
     
  6. alex66

    alex66 Rising Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Location:
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    Star :Oriental Mistery big leaves dark purple,Hondoji in my personal top ten, Lions Hearth incredible
    flops: Jonnie's Pink, dry for frost?conspicum Phoenix= Verticillium,Tsuma Gaki this last is revert( i presume)
    but my personal first is (for this year) tegmentosum White Tigress...
     
  7. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Well, I would not count the dead as 'Flops', poor babies!!.
    It's better to wait at least two seasons to confirm a 'Flop', often plants take time to display their full potential.

    I forgot to add the third place for the 'Flops' this year: 'Ko shibori nishiki'. Another of those 'recent Japanese introductions' for which there is no information (except maybe at Maillot's website), and for a reason: it is an absolutely worthless plant, another drab green palmatum (the nishiki ending is plainly misleading). Stay away from it!.

    Gomero
     
  8. McHoop

    McHoop Member

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    After the late spring bloodbath of 07' here in the midwestern US, I was left to replacing much of my collection. After one year in the ground, my young Mikawa Yatsubusa and Sharp's Pygmy are my stand-outs. My flop has been a Coonera Pygmy that inexplicably suffered some die back to the growing shoots in spite of being in my most protected spot of my yard.

    Hopefully, my attachments were done correctly and you can see my two stars.......

    McHoop
     

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  9. dawgie

    dawgie Active Member 10 Years

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    My stars (this year) include:
    -- Shindeshojo. This tree has grown really well for me, and I finally planted it in the ground this spring after growing in a container about 3 years. The bright red spring and fall leaves are spectacular, and it has a nice horizontal branching form.
    -- Autumn Moon. Although this hasn't grown real fast, it's been steady. The leaf color is spectacular throughout the growing season -- orange and pink in spring, chartreuse in summer, and brilliant orange/red in fall. Leaves have an interesting shape.
    -- Kamagata. This has grown much faster than I expected for a dwarf variety, and I will soon need to repot mine for about the third time already. Feathery, delicate texture for such a hardy tree, with brilliant orange/red fall color.
    -- Mikawa yatsubusa. Mine is still very small and it grows slowly, but the leaves are bright green and feathery. I think by next year mine will have grown enough to develop a really nice form.
    -- Beni hoshi. One of several new grafts I acquired this spring, I am already impressed by the bright red color of its star-like leaves. I think this will develop into a very nice tree.
    -- Beni ubi gohan. The best of several linearilobum varieties I have. Mine has developed a very nice form for such a dwarf tree, and the leaves were a bright cherry red this spring and color holds all summer long.
    -- Seiryu. For such a common variety, this has really impressed me, which explains its popularity. The leaves are very feathery and bright green with red tips, and it has brilliant fall color. Mine has grown more vigorously than any of my other JMs, and has reached about 6' tall in only about 3 years.

    Flops.
    -- Acontifolium. This tree has not been vigorous for me, and is actually smaller now than it was a couple of years ago. However, it has been attacked by deer several times, the only one of my JMs to be damaged like that, and that appears to have taken a toll. Very slow growing.
    -- Red Dragon. Although this has the best, brightest red color of red dissectums I have seen, it is so slow growing that it's like watching paint dry. I doubt if mine if 6" taller now than when I got it 4 years ago, and it has not "wept" very much either. It hasn't even put on 2" of new growth this spring. Perhaps it needs to be moved to a different location.
    -- Emperor. Not impressed by color of its leaves, which are so dark purple that they appear almost black.
    -- Lovett. Pleasant enough of a tree, but nothing spectacular. Doesn't have a very interesting form, growing into a ball-like shape.
    -- Garnett. Although it has a beautiful orange-red color in early spring, mine turns green very quickly for a red dissectum. The problem may be lack of sun, and I moved mine to a sunnier location over the winter and it's holding its color much better this year. Grows very fast for a dissectum -- too fast in my book -- which is part of the reason why I had to move mine. If you want a fast, large growing dissectum, this might be the tree for you, and it supposedly holds its color well if grown in full sun.
     
  10. slickhorn

    slickhorn Member

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    Here in Washington State, we had some hard spring weather. I've been very pleased with how my maples have come through.

    Studs:

    --Aka shigitatsu sawa. Bought this at Pollack and Sons leafless, and concerned it wouldn't show the rose blush. It's not quite up to the photo in Vertrees, but it has been the longest show of any maple thus far this year, and the red is only becoming more and more pronounced. Very pleased with this tree, and it seems happy so far with rather a lot of sun.

    --Katsura. The early show was fantastic, and although reputed to be victim of late frosts, I found it was tough as nails this year, which featured several frosts after Katsura broke bud.

    --Kurui Jishi. Color and bud scales aren't anything spectacular, but I just love the leaf shape.

    --Beni Schichihenge. Picked up a new graft...wow! Can't wait to see how this one grows.

    --Irish lace. Bought for it's fall color, the intriguing shades of its spring/summer foliage is a pleasant surprise.

    Duds:
    --Tsuma Gaki. A little disappointed in this one, which is perhaps too shaded in it's current location.

    --Yama Hime came to me and promptly fell victim to the late frosts. Still hasn't sent out healthy new leaves; hoping she recovers.

    --Shin Deshojo. Just didn't put on much of a spring color show this year.

    --Purple Ghost. A favorite last year, the metallic tone doesn't seem as strong this year.

    of roughly 27 maples, my reigning favs are:

    Aka s. sawa
    a.s. aureum
    mikawa yatsubusa
    beni shishihenge
    kurui jishi
     
  11. nelran

    nelran Active Member

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    Location:
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    Here from the south part of the north hemisphere, things are beginning to get really hot; so part of my JMs are located now in spots with half day shadow.
    I had had more or less same behavior described by other Acerphilles for some of the JMs. Surprisingly (at least for me) my dissectums are doing extraordinary well: my two ‘seryu’ (one potted, one in ground) both of them with excellent growing rate and showing full leaves without any sign of burn tips. Also, grow rate is astounding, (the potted seryu have new branches with more than 60 cm (20”) long an all of these in the last 4 months. For me ‘Seryu’ is a Star. Also ‘Waterfall’ and ‘Viridis’ are other runners, confirming why they are very popular in the trade.
    But I like to add one more to the star group because it surpassed all my expectations, I was afraid to add this cultivar to my collection because I was read in some posts that this cultivar was not really strong to deal with this hot weather; however my three ‘Butterfly’s are making their run to be the winners of the star group. The planted one, surpassed by far all others JMs (planted and potted) in growing rate (even more that the common green Acer palmatums). The trunk almost triplicate its diameter (from 3/4" to 2.5" in 18 months) and its performance along the different seasons is simply astounding. It is in full sun for most of the day with almost not tip sunburn, then is superb in spring with its fresh leaves (almost white/cream), changing to the characteristic greener/white on summer and displaying the orange/red tones during fall. No doubt, an excellent performer.
    ‘Suminagashi’,’ Shaina’, ‘Burgundy Lace’, ‘Oshio Beni’ and ‘Bloodgood’ follow close to the star group, and each year they are close to win the race.
    The ‘Sango Kaku’s also have had their moments of glory, but it seems to me they need more time to grow and mature, so then they can show their full potential. All four of them are growing very well and show their characteristic red bark and green leaves, but I didn’t see (yet) the exceptional fall colors that others collectors have had with their cultivars.
    I have several ‘shirasawanums’ acquired in the last months but I don’t want to emit an opinion yet due their short time with me. However, I can say in general, that they are much slower producing leaves and grow rate (comparing with the palmatums). The bigger that I have is an Aconitifolium, and it started to leafed out in February and still has a lot of bud breaking, producing new leaves. It seems that will last the whole summer to be covered completely. However its leaves at maturity are about 3”-5” long, (the biggest of my collection).

    Until now, my really flop cultivar is the ‘Tsuma Gaki’. I had great hope with this cultivar, and I was expected the nice green and red tips leaves, but it has reverted to different kind of leaves, more common. Probably I have to wait a couple of years to see what will do with more mature branches. With this cultivar I'm going to sit, wait and see.

    Nelran
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2008
  12. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Location:
    Normandie, France
    Stars:
    A. cappidocicum ssp sinicum
    A. campestre 'Carnival'
    A. campestre 'Red Shine'
    A. pseudoplatanus 'Brigada Revolution'
    A. negundo 'Sensation'
    A. japonicum 'Vitifolium'
    A. pseudosieboldianum
    A. palmatum 'Chitoseyama'
    A. palmatum 'Orange Dream' (as always)

    Flops:
    A. negundo 'Flamingo'
    A. palmatum 'Trompenburg'
    A. palmatum 'Beni tsukasa' (normally reliable)
    A. pectinatum 'Alice'
    A. pictum (will this tree ever do something?)
    A. mandshuricum

    And of course those that died in the freeze: shirasawanum Jordan, campestre Nanum, longipes catalpifolium, x conspicuum Candy Stripe, etc.

    -E
     
  13. Poetry to Burn

    Poetry to Burn Active Member

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    I flipped over:

    'Katsura' was beyond expectations this year. It's still a beauty but in April it demanded attention and pause for reflection, really! (no pic)

    'Aka omote' is very distinctive and lovely, new plant for me.(pic 1,2,5)

    'Aratama' is a stunner. Fascinating color and texture, strong growing and exotic.(pic 3)

    'Okushimo' got my attention this year. Vibrant and sturdy.(pic4)

    'Utsu semi', normally circumspect, joined the "maples gone wild" genre this spring. This plant gained about 12-14"!(no pic)

    Flopped:

    2 plants from Herter 'Red Dragon' and 'Green Trompenberg' both up and wilted in the last 2 weeks.

    'Aeken Ies' although it is terrifically charming is really, really slower than i like.

    'Orido nishiki', robust but 95% green, no ferts.
    No other complaints.
     

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  14. Scion Swapper

    Scion Swapper Active Member

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    Haven't been around here in a while, but have been very active in the Acer arena. Anyway, great forum Gomero:

    Stars:
    A.p. 'Peve Multicolor' - looked like a regular green palmatum as a fresh graft last year (thought maybe a flop), looks like a gawdy pink green white and sometimes yellow and orange freak this year. SOme leaves looking reticulated, while most others are speckled.

    A. p. 'Shojo no mai' - I've had this cultivar for a few years and it continues to impress me. Similar to 'Beni shichihengi', but way more vibrant and pink in it's variegation and it's variegation is more pronounced (covers more of the leaf). IT really stands out, even in direct full sun. This is a winner and way underutilized.

    A. p. 'Hana matoi' - Awsome spring colors of red and pink variegation. Early notes, some grafts seem to come out only red/orange color without variegation, while others have excellent pink and red variegated blends. Don't know if this "corrects" in later years or if this cultivar reverts easily. Was given scions as trial/evaluation and asked to not propagate.

    A.p. 'Ryusen'/'Ryusey' - extremely pendulous green palmatum type. fresh grafts are sending branches just above the bench and then dropping 12" below pot line. Wants to be a hanging basket. Lazy weeper that goes where gravity tells it.

    A.p. 'Abigail Rose' - Felt like I had to comment on this one as someone else on the forum didn't like it this spring (be patient??). To me, this thing was AMAZING this spring. VIBrant red edges around green interior to the leaf with a dense dwarflike habit. I have a few others that are similar ('Higasayama Broom' and 'Squiggles'), but this one definetly impressed me this summer.

    FLOPS: I would not put any "new" varieties to me here, as I've found that 2nd and 3rd year trees tend to show the real beauty. But.....

    'Oranges and Lemons' very obscure cultivar, not seen outside of the Vertrees glossary. Looks like an Acer palmatum seedling, even after 3 years of growing. Gave a couple to friends, now they have nice Acer palmatum 'commons' growing in their collections. Sorry Ed.

    Acer palmatum dissectum 'Insert your green cutleaf cultivar name here'. I've talked about this in the past, but a good 5-10 green cutleafs should be eliminated from any maple reference, as they are indistinguishable.

    Acer pal dissect 'Stella Rosa' - my jury is still out on this one, but its color does not maintain well in the greenhouse/full sun during late summer compared to 'Tamukeyama', which I consider the standard for red/purple color retention amongst cutleafs. Plus it doesn't seem to have the vigor of 'Garnet' or 'Orangeola' to make up for it's lack of color retention. But, we only have 1gals, so we may find in time we are wrong and this is a real winner.

    Anyway, haven't been here in ages. Love to chime in.
    Regards,
    Scion Swapper
    Brian
     
  15. kaydye

    kaydye Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Location:
    Live in Mapleton, Illinois, zone 5
    Stars this year:
    A. palm. 'Beni tsukasa' planted as a little wisp of a thing three years ago and nondescript has taken off and looks beautiful this year, distinctive and vigorous.
    A. palm. 'Beni Shichinenge' had a slow start, but now is cloudlike at 13 years of age.
    A. palm. 'Sagara Nishiki' I just got this year, but I am blown away by the beauty of the variegation. I never dreamed it would really look like the pictures I had seen.
    A. palm. 'Kiohime' just explodes each spring.
    A. palm. 'Virdis' I have two and love each. Yes, they are green dissectums, but very sculptural in growth, at least mine are. Completely different shape than Waterfall, which would also be on my list.
    A. shirasawanum 'Aureum' Bright and stays that way, I love it each year. I am on my second A. shir. 'Autumn Moon', hope it is lives up to all of the good things everyone says about it.
    All my ghosts (grandma, and purple in particular, sister had a little wilting and dieback on some branches. It's been really rainy this year and I think it's staying a little too wet.)
    A. palm. 'Villa Taranto' is very nice.
    And I have to say my A. palm. 'Tsuma gaki' is looking fabulous this year. Last year the leaves browned on the edge and it looked ugly all year. I maybe let it get too dry (container grown). I hope it doesn't do that this year or I will have to move it to the flops list.
    A. rufinerve 'Hasuyuki' I got this last year and it was supposed to be variegated and wasn't. I decided I would just put it in the ground and see what happened. This year it is variegated and looks like it will be super. I wish I had put it in a better place, It's not getting enough light, surrounded by big ferns.
    One more that I just got and can't believe the color is A. palm. 'Lozita'. I have never seen such a fluorescent red/pink color on a leaf. If it stays that way, wow!

    Flops:
    A. palm. 'Johnnie's Pink' It should be called 'Johnnie's Brown' but it does seem vigorous
    A. palm. 'Corallinum' It is brown-pink already.
    A. palm. 'Oregon Sunset' Lots of dieback, but what's alive looks vigorous. I hate that. I don't know if I should take it out and plant something else there, or see how it develops.
    A. palm. 'Peaches and Cream' has been disappointing. Very blah.
    A. palm. 'Harriet Waldman' Last year when I got it, it was variegated and very splashy and pretty with pink and white. This year is is brown with no variegation. I wonder if it will appear later, or next year. If not, it's kind of ugly, I hate to say it.
    I have also been disappointed with my A. campestre 'Carnival' (2). Both suffered dieback, which I didn't expect, them being rated a solid zone 5. They looked good all year last year (only planted 07, so maybe they just weren't strong enough). The other campestre's did fine as well as the circinatums I planted.

    Well, that's about it. Great reading all of the posts.
    Kay
     
  16. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hi Brian,

    So, what have you been doing?, acer-fighting?

    Gomero
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2008
  17. Scion Swapper

    Scion Swapper Active Member

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    Hey Gomero,

    I gave up acer fighting years ago when I dropped off that other forum where the plant bullies are. good to hear from you.
    Brian
     
  18. mattlwfowler

    mattlwfowler Active Member Maple Society

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    Location:
    South Carolina, USA
    Stars:
    -Aka shigitatsu sawa (not the beni-like form, and maybe not the form shown in Vertrees' but still a beauty again this year)
    -Aratama (best early show for my dwarfs, although shaina is now showing off)
    -Olsen's frosted strawberry (Somewhere between kasagiyama and purple ghost perhaps, I can't stop staring at the new growth coloration)
    -Orange dream (found the right spot to get some gold coloration this spring, but it will soon burn I suppose)

    Flops:
    -Jerry Schwartz sp? (1st year so I will hold judgement as I think it is in too much shade at the moment)
    -Sh. Moonrise (also 1st year, no orange red coloration in spring, not too gold in part shade, will try more sun next year)
     
  19. Scion Swapper

    Scion Swapper Active Member

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    Regarding 'Jerry Schwartz', give that one some more time. I have one in my yard that I really love. If you stand back, it kinda reminds you of a pink/mauve 'Kamagata' in the spring.
     
  20. Scion Swapper

    Scion Swapper Active Member

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    OOPPS, regarding my post about several cultivars similar to 'Abigail Rose', I mentioned one called 'Squiggles'..... I ment 'Squitty'. 'Squiggles' is a new and rare dwarf contorted needle White pine variety. sorry.
     
  21. kaydye

    kaydye Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I'm curious...you have 'Jerry Schwartz' planted in the ground how long? Are you zone 6 in New Jersey? I am on my second, having killed the first, and figured I would have to keep it potted (zone 5). I love it, the colors of the foliage, the form, just everything. I didn't put it on my star list, since I just got it again this spring, but I am so glad I am trying it again. By the way in case anyone is wondering why it died, I killed it, I put it into my little unheated greenhouse too soon and it froze. Stupidity on my part. By the way, I got the new one from Topiary Gardens this spring, not too far from you, well, closer than Wash. State. I hope I can visit there sometime. They have the most fantastic maples and it takes much less shipping time to get them to me. Plus, they are the best (IMHO) as far as packing. I got 4 this week and even though they were fully leafed out, not a leaf was damaged. But I digress...
    Kay
     
  22. Scion Swapper

    Scion Swapper Active Member

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    I received scions of 'Jerre Schwartz' about 5 or 6 years ago from Billy Schwartz of Green Mansions Nursery, it's founder. The tree in my yard is about 3 feet high and 2 or so feet wide and very well established. I am actually in a coastal area of New Jersey, somewhere around 6b/7a. No burn back issues at all with my tree. A very nice unknown cultivar. Excellent spring pink color and cool leaf and habit.

    Brian the swapper
     
  23. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I have just had a look at Jerre Swartz on Esvelds site. It looks to be a fine looking tree
    Maybe one for the future ? :)
     
  24. Scion Swapper

    Scion Swapper Active Member

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    Here are a couple of photos of my 'Jerre Schwartz'. Was going to send them to the maple photo area but forgot how. Maybe someone at the UBC can bounce them over there too. Its 90 degrees and high humidity here, so the photos aren't the best
     

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  25. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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