Hello, I live in the SF Bay Area in CA, and moved into a house last year. THe tangerine tree in our front yard has recently shown some signs of "bad stuff" Don't know if it's a lack of water, fertilizer, pests... I noticed some yellowing of leaves, "wilted" look to some branches (due to fruit weight?), and some inner parts of the tree branches becoming dead and leafless. Please see the pictures! Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Your tree is not dying. It is rather common for Mandarins planted in the ground to show the beginnings of a nutrient deficiency during the Summer, early Autumn, while there is fruit on the tree. In a production orchard we tend use a foliar chelate spray of either iron and/or zinc to help bring color back to the leaves. In your case you can use some Epson salt about 3 ounces (do it right now if you plan to use it, do not wait even as long as two weeks) and sprinkle it around the base of the tree and water it in well. The center of the tree appears to show the aftereffects of you having a scale insect at one time or another. I thought I saw a couple pretty well hidden Cottony Cushion scale on two limbs on two of the photos. A good shower of water to wash off the twigs and branches will help for this now as your infestation is not extreme enough yet to warrant a chemical spray but you will want to use a spray in the next year or two if this condition gets worse and you will easily see it if it gets bad but I'd wait until mid Spring now to use any insecticide. It is also normal for the center of the trees to have some die out due to lack of light to penetrate into the center of the tree. It is not too late for you where you are to use a fertilizer instead of the Epson salts but not a heavy dose or a fertilizer with Nitrogen in it now. Go to a Home Depot, a Lowe's or even a retail nursery and get a bag or a 5 pound box of a granular bloom fertilizer (0-10-10) that has no Nitrogen in it but make sure it has Calcium in the nutrient content and sprinkle three ounces of it about one foot away from the trunk and water it in well and then next Spring, probably mid February for you there, then go ahead and use a Citrus food at a rate of three to four ounces that has some Nitrogen in it and let the late Spring rains water the granular fertilizer into the ground for you. Jim
Jim, I answered this same question from the same person on an other forum. I believe your reply could certainly be correct. I also think the problem for this particular tree is compounded by the fact the tree is being grown in the front yard grass. He waters the grass two or three times a week and further the sprinkler strikes the tree. The grass growing under the drip line of the tree absorbs a lot of the nutrients, and the constant watering of the lawn leaches much of the remainer out of the root zone. Both nitrogen and potassium are very water soluble, and is easily leached. Also the fruit on the tree is using up much of the available potassium that is left. - Millet
Thanks Millet for the information. Since we have a forum crossover at work here, I'll stay out of this one now. I may write you later with some thoughts on the lawn, water and nutrient aspects. Jim
Daniel, I understand but in the last several months there has been a wealth of duplicate threads that are being posted in both forums. One of us has a problem to get over with concerning some of the people in that "other" forum. I should better look at things that I may end up helping someone else in time that looks around in this forum rather than the person that started the original thread in another online forum host and then pretty much posts the same question in here also. If they will answer my questions then perhaps I can be of more help to them but I have found that there are people on the "other side" that have not always been too helpful with their input regarding growing situations that may also affect others elsewhere. In this case the lawn aspect does not bother me. The water hitting the leaves can be a problem but overhead watering of this tree may actually help the tree. I see no need to have a drip line if this tree is being watered by sprinklers. I agree with Millet that nutrients are being washed away somewhat by the current irrigation practice but my main concern other than scale which are present and have signs of being around previous are the two nutrient deficiencies I am seeing and how we go about either masking the effects of them or dealing with them head on. We do not know what all we need to know to offer a specific recommendation just yet on what to do to counter the current state of health for this tree. Jim
Jim, you say, "In this case the lawn aspect does not bother me" and "I see no need to have a drip line." I wonder why? It is evident from reading your threads, that you have considerable experience and knowledge concerning the cultivation of citrus. I certainly respect anyone with your knowledge. I, however, have always believed for several reasons that citrus is best grown without any vegetation what so ever in or under the drip line. I would be greatful to hear your thinking. Thank you. - Millet
Millet, ideally you are quite correct Citrus will do better without any other vegetation. We can grow some Citrus here in a lawn. Mandarins and dwarf trees being some of them as they have been used sparingly in some landscapes as companion plants along with other plants. As far as the lawn taking nutrients away from the tree that is an issue for us but we can overcome it or at least deal with it by adding in more fertilizer if need be to compensate for the lawn taking up some of the nutrients. All of my 60+ Fruit Trees are planted in my lawn, 2 acres worth of lawn that is watered by sprinklers. I am not seeing what I feel is much fertilizer going into the lawn as a result of how and when I fertilize my trees. I am not worried about fertilizer wasteage or it going somewhere else here. For this Mandarin I feel I can compensate for it being in a lawn but others may not want to deal with it. I understand your concern but sometimes we have to deal with the hand that was dealt us and with that in mind I would try to compensate for the possibility of nutrient loss that may go into the lawn by either adding in more fertilizer per application and hose (deep) watering it in or I would time my smaller perhaps applications when the lawn itself is either dormant or not growing and does not have to be watered. If we can rely on rainfall to water in the fertilizer for us while the lawn is dormant and not growing like some Fescue lawns will do here then I feel I can deal with the lawn and the Citrus growing together. Our orchards have no vegetation at all but in a home landscape we can deal with a Citrus tree and have it in a lawn. I would not try to grow a standard tree in a lawn but we can as in time the dense shade from the canopy of the tree will cause the lawn to die out as it did for one of my next door neighbors. In between the trees is lawn but the lawn no longer exists under the trees. The same will happen in time with this Mandarin that the lawn will no longer be growing underneath the tree but will die out giving us in time a nice clean vegetation free area underneath the tree. All we need is 1 1/2-2 feet away from the trunk of the tree to lay down some granular fertilizer and in time we will have that area naturally cleared out for us. For the immediate nutrient correction, yes indeed the lawn poses a problem in that we have a definite zinc deficiency to deal with that needs to be addressed as this tree will stress even more next year if something is not done about it. I know in production orchards we would use a zinc chelate spray, not so much as a corrective measure but as a preventative to ward off a possible or pending deficiency when the trees have fruit on them but in this case a chelate spray or even several sprays may not be enough to counter the severity of the current deficiency. A ground based fertilizer program will be warranted instead based on what I am seeing so in this case the lawn becomes a small hindrance for us and I can take care of that by clearing out a 2 foot circle of lawn around the tree so I can lay my fertilizer down on the ground, not on the lawn and risk the nutrients moving away from where I want them to go. Removal of the lawn is not mandatory for a normal fertilization but we have a deficiency at work that is not going to get better anytime soon, so I'd go ahead and remove the lawn just to be more certain that my application will do for me what I want it to do. If the tree was mine I would not remove the lawn but if I am doing it for someone else then the 2' of lawn around the base of the tree is gone. The drip line is not necessary if the tree is already being watered by sprinklers. Where this tree is located there is no need to have both a drip line and sprinklers as the tree will get ample water from the sprinklers alone. The evapotranspiration at this location is not a real concern anyway compared to here. I reserve the right to change my mind about the sprinklers and the drip line if I could see the layout and know how much water is being applied, for how long and how often but Citrus in this location do a lot better if they do not get over watered as the soil seldom gets warm enough to kill off certain root rotting fungi and that is a prevalent issue for much of the San Francisco Bay area. Jim
Thank you. After reading your response, I agree that this citrus tree could be grown in the yard, IF the property owner gave the extra care required for a tree in a landscape situation. However, in this particular case, the property owner has recently aquired the property, and I believe has little or no knowledge concerning the care of citrus. All of my landscape trees have the grass removed from around them and are landscaped using a steel edging ring. However, thankyou for a well thought out reply. - Millet
One of the problems we have is that we are not told everything we need to know about the tree. A new homeowner probably is not going to know what the history of the tree is, such as how long it has been planted in that spot, how much and how often it has been fertilized, what insects have invaded in the past, so the homeowner sees a tree that may not look lush and green and have some concerns that the tree is faltering and may die on them. All we can do is give some insight into what needs to be done now for the tree, so no matter whether you and I agree on specifics we are both correct in our assessments of this tree today in this landscape. How we deal with the current problems is where we may differ a little but we are not that far apart either. It is a novel idea to use Citrus in landscape plantings but out here it has been done, even planted in lawns. I've not encountered a wealth of nutrients that I have applied to a Fruit & Nut tree or even Citrus that is being overly wasted and used up by the lawn. The lawn probably will use up some of the nutrients but not enough from my experience to overly worry about it too much but we do take it into consideration. When I apply the granular Citrus food I want to water it in so well that most but not all of the fertilizer dissolves. It is my way of having the nutrients become watered into the soil and then they will work down to where they need to go for the plant to later utilize. Cooler areas are different than how things can be here for nutrient absorption. Here we have the benefit of warmer temperatures and warmer soil temperatures that can facilitate the breakdown of the nutrients faster into the forms that can be readily utilized by the plant. In cooler areas the removal of the vegetation near and around the base of a landscape tree becomes more important than it generally is here. That is not to say that we are not better off to also remove the vegetation but here we do not have to. I've seen Meyer Lemons planted in the front yards of homes in Palo Alto, not far from Stanford University that have been in the ground for 30 years or longer and the trees look pretty good to me. It all comes down how we care for the trees as to how well they will do for us and how long they will live for us. I felt years ago that we could use several Citrus in a landscape but doing that requires a little added thought on what we want from the tree. Now it is up to the homeowner to tell us what he or she wants from this tree and then we can work out a plan to deal with the trees current situation and for that we are going to want your input. I don't have all of the answers. I am going to want to know your opinion and can use some of your help also. Best regards, Jim
Further, Jim when you said "drip lne" in your third thread, I it took it to mean the surface area from the trunk to the outer edges of the branches. I now see from your latest thread you ment an actual irrigation line that emits water. Additionally, to your diagnosis, I think the tree has been way over watered, especially being October/November in cool San Francisco (BTW my home town,) Take care. - Millet
