Identification: 'Surugadai-nioi'? Single white, early mid-season - Joseph's new find

Discussion in 'Ornamental Cherries' started by Joseph Lin, Mar 4, 2010.

  1. Joseph Lin

    Joseph Lin Active Member 10 Years

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    I saw this unknown cherry tree, 3 meter high in the garden of an apartment at 1568 West 12 Ave., Vancouver west of Granville St. One tree cherries are blooming, but the other one has only buds.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 6, 2010
  2. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Single white, early mid-season, dense thin upright straight branches

    I see similarities between the one Joseph is asking about and the Oshima Cherry shown on pp. 34-35 of Ornamental Cherries in Vancouver (2008 Douglas Justice).
     
  3. Joseph Lin

    Joseph Lin Active Member 10 Years

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  4. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Single white, early mid-season - Joseph's new find

    It does have those huge bud scales like the 'Shirotae' and 'Oshima', and has that 'Shirotae' appearance but single blossoms. How important are those sepal serrations? Kuitert (Japanese Flowering Cherries) mentions the serrated sepals, but then his 'Oshima' photo shows sepals with no serrations.

    I'm looking for a distinguishing name for this thread. Or if we decide 'Oshima', I could just merge it into that thread.
     
  5. Douglas Justice

    Douglas Justice Active Member UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Single white, early mid-season - Joseph's new find

    Sepal margins are sometimes a definitive character, sometimes not. It seems that it's rather variable from year to year. I strongly suspect that the complete expression of serrations in the flowers of those trees that normally produce them probably depends on some temperature or moisture mediated aspect of organ ontogenesis (development). Another complication is the inherent variation among individuals in a species. Remember, Oshima cherry is a species (i.e., Prunus speciosa), not a single clone like the vast majority of cherries we study.

    How large are these flowers?
     
  6. Joseph Lin

    Joseph Lin Active Member 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Single white, early mid-season - Joseph's new find

    I think its size larger than plum, and little small than somei-yoshino.
     
  7. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Single white, early mid-season - Joseph's new find

    Here are measurements of Joseph's tree, compared with 'Somei-yoshino' and 'Oshima' from Kits Beach. Joseph's tree is fragrant, and the 'Oshima' is a bit fragrant. I can't tell if they smell the same.
    12th Avenue tree
    20100305_12thFir_OshimaQ_Cutler_DSC05398.jpg 20100305_12thFir_OshimaQ_Cutler_DSC05405.jpg

    The other tree in that yard on 12th, the one not open yet, is 'Shirotae'. I found one open blossom bunch to confirm that. Blossom photo compares size of Shirotae and the single-blossom tree in question.
    20100305_12thFir_Shirotae_Cutler_DSC05407.jpg 20100305_12thFir_OshimaQ_Cutler_DSC05410.jpg

    Kits Beach
    'Somei-yoshino' flowers (Left) - 'Oshima' flowers (Right)

    20100305_KitsBeachArbutus_SomeiYoshino_Cutler_DSC05418.jpg 20100305_KitsBeachArbutus_Oshima_Cutler_DSC05423.jpg
     
  8. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Single white, early mid-season - Joseph's new find

    A one with bell-shaped, single white flowers emitting a marked almond fragrance, that is seen mixed with 'Shirotae' in multiple plantings down here has been [provisionally] identified by Arthur Lee Jacobson as 'Hosokawa-nioi'. See p. 78, Trees of Seattle - Second Edition.
     
  9. Joseph Lin

    Joseph Lin Active Member 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Single white, early mid-season - Joseph's new find

    These flowers don't have "three or more erect flaglike petaloids in the heart, a distinguishing characteristic" as discribed in the book of Japanese Flowering Cherries.

    They are also different from the only one Hosokawa-nioi in Seaforth Peace Park at Burrard St. at WEst First Ave., Vancouver. http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showpost.php?p=196018&postcount=50
     
  10. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Single white, early mid-season - Joseph's new find

    The one we're calling 'Hosokawa-nioi', across from the armory, isn't in bloom yet (and grows in a location that should bloom at the same time or earlier than this one if it were the same cultivar). It was out with the crab apples last year, at the end of April. Crab apples haven't started at all yet. That should make one of these two not 'Hosokawa-nioi'.
     
  11. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Single white, early mid-season - Joseph's new find

    I haven't seen 'Shirotae' in bloom down here yet either, yet Wendy showed flowers of it next to the mystery variety.
     
  12. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Single white, early mid-season - Joseph's new find

    Joseph Lin posted a photo of 'Shirotae' downtown (edge of the West End really) on March 4th.
     
  13. Joseph Lin

    Joseph Lin Active Member 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Single white, early mid-season - Joseph's new find

    This afternoon, I found another two "single white" cherries almost 3 story high at 3506 West 38 Ave at Collingwood St SW corner. They are different from nearby Akebono.
    20100316_West38Collingwood_White_Lin_0793_resize.jpg 20100316_West38Collingwood_White_Lin_0797_resize.JPG

    They seems to me not Somei-yoshino. They have pink buds, green leaves and 2.5 cm peduncle holding 2.0 cm pubescent pedicels that hold 3 flowers.
    20100316_West38Collingwood_White_Lin_0812_resize.jpg 20100316_West38Collingwood_White_Lin_0815_resize.jpg 20100316_West38Collingwood_White_Lin_0819_resize.jpg
    20100316_West38Collingwood_White_Lin_0824_resize.jpg 20100316_West38Collingwood_White_Lin_0827_resize.jpg

    The flower 3.5 cm wide is almost the same as Akebono and smaller petals 1.5 x 1.2 cm (Akebono 1.9 x 1.3 cm). Three photos for comparison with Akebono at right and the white unknow at left.
    DSC_0840_resize.JPG DSC_0843_resize.JPG DSC_0845_resize.JPG
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2010
  14. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Single white, early mid-season - Joseph's new find

    Joseph, is the tree the one shown in these two postings in the Dunbar thread?
    http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showpost.php?p=133545&postcount=8
    or
    http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showpost.php?p=192838&postcount=30
    If it's that tree, Mariko thought it was 'Somei-yoshino'. It looks like it to me, but I'm having a lot of trouble with 'Somei-yoshino' today too. I've seen three trees in Stanley Park I'm wondering about.
     
  15. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Single white, early mid-season - Joseph's new find

    The pink-blushed one is surely 'Akebono'.
     
  16. Joseph Lin

    Joseph Lin Active Member 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Single white, early mid-season - Joseph's new find

    Yes, my tree is the same as Mariko's finding. It can be 'Somei-yoshino'.

    The last #0827 photo pinkish flowers on the branch are on the same white cherry trees, not on the nearby Akebono.
     
  17. Joseph Lin

    Joseph Lin Active Member 10 Years

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    Re: Fairview--Unknown white single flower

    I found this unknown tree before. I still don't know what it is in the garden of an apartment at 1568 West 12 Ave., Vancouver. This tree is about 4 meter high. Flower diameter aroud 3.5 cm. Every bundle has 5 flowers. You can see the details and sizes of sepals, pedicels, bracts and leaves. Its center turned to red before withering. Another cherry tree nearby is a fully bloomed shirotae (not shown here)
     

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    Last edited: Apr 10, 2011
  18. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Single white, early mid-season - Joseph's new find

    I'll start off for this year by suggesting 'Surugadai-nioi'. Ron B has suggested that it looks like Oshima Cherry, and 'Surugadai-nioi' is a selection of that. It's fragrant, and has the "one or more folds lengthwise on the middle vein" that Kuitert mentions (Flowering Japanese Cherries, Timber Press, 1999).

    There's a small problem in that this cultivar is to bloom at the same time as 'Taki-nioi', which is nowhere near out at UBC, but we don't have any 'Taki-nioi' identified in any normal blooming area of the city. I also don't know how I'd distinguish it from 'Taki-nioi', yet I didn't come up with that for an id, I guess because the tree shape is so different from the one at UBC, the only one I know.
     
  19. Douglas Justice

    Douglas Justice Active Member UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Single white, early mid-season - Joseph's new find

    Flowering at UBC is almost always much later than elsewhere in the Vancouver area because of differences in heat accumulation. 'Surugadai-nioi' seems a reasonable guess.
     
  20. Joseph Lin

    Joseph Lin Active Member 10 Years

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    It looks like the similar description in Kuitert's book. 'Surugadai-nioi' flowers fully bloomed with foliage as this year. The rather narrow petals show one or more folds lengthwise on the middle vein. Its foliage in not as deep bronze-brown. 'Surugadai-nioi' has fewer flowers on branching twigs.
     
  21. Anne Eng

    Anne Eng Active Member 10 Years

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    In memory of, and in tribute to the great Joseph Lin, I made an early clandestine trip to the garden grounds of the
    Shaughnessy apartment building (1568 W.12, east of Fir). Finishing up with its bloom, this is what the tree looks like at April 19, 2020.
    20200419_W12Fir_Surugadai_Eng__1684.jpg 20200419_W12Fir_Surugadai_Eng_1685.jpg 20200419_W12Fir_Surugadai_Eng__1688.jpg
     

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