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Discussion in 'Maples' started by Acerholic, Jun 6, 2022.
I need Acer pentaphyllum!
If you can find one, so much the better : it's an endangered species, in its native area, south-east of Sichuan, less than 200 specimens are listed. Fortunately, trees from seeds or cuttings are available (at least here in France).
It's a difficulte tree to grow in my climate. When planted in the ground, young specimens can hardly survive a couple of days of -12°C (about 10 F) in winter from what I've read, and mine is potted.
Emery could probably tell you more, but I suppose in Rhode Island where the winters can (still) be harsher, I think a greenhouse would be needed....
Yeah, even the one in SF died in a hard winter. On the other hand, they love hot summers, so it would do well in RI so long as you kept it safe in winter.
LOL, Alain, my Tsuma gaki has maybe 3 tortured and misshapen leaves left!
Well, here are a few things still going. Most of these are in pots after repotting, though a couple are in the ground, like Higasa yama. After that is 2 of an unnamed selection that's done OK, though just planted last year; Utsu semi, though in a lot of shade, just couldn't get the water to cool off; the "real" A. discolor (as opposed to the Coursonia strain); 4 labeled JMs, starting with a selection that is very red in spring, then very yellow. (Doesn't seem to withstand sun very well, though).
Oh, so bad...
Has anyone a "nice" Tsuma gaki in late summer ?...
This one ?
Mine look a bit different...
Mine look a bit different...
That's the one. Yours (and the others I have) I've been calling the Coursiana Strain, but actually that's confusing as it turns out Jacques Urban first brought these to light, and supplied Coursiana. He received them as A. oblongum (for which discolor is now a synonym) in two batches, but though each batch was identical, it clearly wasn't oblongum, and so he thought it was most likely discolor, or perhaps a hybrid, but he called it the former.
Crowley thought these were most likely related to paxii, so we've been saying Acer aff. paxii, though there are a number of problems with this. Now, Garin was in contact with a fellow from the harvesting area of the seed, in the Han river, where the original seeds were taken. He reports that there is no paxii in the area, but a lot of oblongum. His opinion, which doesn't seem unreasonable and with which Garin is inclined to agree, is that these "discolor" are most likely a stable hybrid (naturally occurring or maybe not) of oblongum and buergerianum. This would be a possible hybrid, and it does in many aspects explain the plants.
My sense is that it's the best explanation I've heard. The plant above has very leathery leaves, like oblongum, whereas the Coursiana Strain plants are quite papery and often have large regular lobes (as you know)! It is also much less lobed than the Couriana ones, and resembles certain oblongum pretty closely. (There already seem to be a wide range of individuals within that species). My plant is actually a seedling of an A. discolor that comes from a completely separate source than Florama, which is (Florama), we think, the source of all the relatively similar "Coursiana Strain" plants.
I'm not sure we'll ever have the real answer to the riddle, heh.
"a stable hybrid (naturally occurring or maybe not) of oblongum and buergerianum" : I like this point of view. To me Acer discolor could be considered as a seperate species, perhaps sthg like Acer x discolor : I don't have any Acer oblongum, but frankly from the many photos I've seen, mine are not. They aren't Acer buergerianum either, but closer to it.
I'm no specialist at all.
I’ll take a photo of mine in the morning..it’s not the best.but seems ok..you can tell me if it’s looking the right side of the fence!
Tsuma Gaki..Bit crispy, but still has its coat on!!
My bloodgood for the first time in a long time has lost all it's leaves due to the heat! Not sure what went wrong this year, but it could be a chemical fertilizer I used that was made for Japanese Maples from (Treehelp).
That was the only thing different this season.
I should have stuck with HappyFrog and Silica supplements.
A lot have defoliated over here as well. But it's the trees protecting themselves. The less leaves to give moisture to, helps it survive. So all should be well in the Spring. Re feeding, I don't think they need it, unless in pots for a long time and you can't get around to repotting too often.
'Amber Ghost' go through so many beautiful color changes!
Matsugae in a container in dappled shade has not been remotely bothered by the heatwave and drought:
Tsuma gaki settling in not too bad, had this 14 or 15 months and getting it adapted to my growing style:
Here are a few recent pics, including some dissectums I took to show a friend about training, various maples that were randomly photographed or coming into color, and sub-tropical maples among others putting on late growth.
Shishigashira and Mirte have resisted the heat and drought. They haven't been watered all year.
Potted A. cappadocicum coming into a pretty autumn yellow. This is a green one, that has been in nearly full sun all summer.
Inabe shidare, Orangeola, Alloys. The latter was watered, as it was only planted last year. Inabe shidare was planted in 2020 but seems quite tough.
Acer aff. sterculiaceum. I'm not sure what this is, but it colors early. Within Sec Lithocarpa A, tsinglingense also changes early, but this doesn't quite seem to be a match.
A coriaceifolium, from seed. A grafted one, in the ground, is evergreen here. But wow do the caterpillars love this one, the young leaves are very tender before becoming leathery.
A. pseudoplatanus 'Meyering' just arrived and was grilled, trying to stock a little more energy before dormancy
Acers Johin and Koko, the latter with some late summer growth
Sub-tropical or semi-evergreen maples: Acers albopurpurascens, fabri, calcaratum x2, sempervirens (wild collection), tutcheri (probable hybrid). Well ok, albopurpurascens in completely tropical AFAICT, it cannot withstand any frost at all. This sempervirens had a horrible root tangle, so I separated it out and used a rock to keep it from strangling itself. It lost most of its leaves, but these are hanging on; it usually keeps a fair amount of leaves over winter.
Very good. Yours is in a similar condition to mine..pretty happy how it’s coped this year tbh
Temp dropped September 1. Someone seem to be coloring up early (A. palmatum 'Shigarami').
That looks healthy D. After your comment about colouring up, perhaps very soon now, a new thread 'Autumn maples 2022' should be started up.
I was thinking the same
Do you (or does anyone) have the similar 'Tana'? I rec'd one of these a few days ago, it's really not what I expected. The leaves just look wrong. I guess I'll see more in the Spring, but this is what the leaves look like
I didn't see a single 7-lobed leaf on the plant, and the shape looks wrong to me, too. What say we?
A few of my potted maples are beginning to show autumn colours, or latehot summer colours. I started a thread "Autumn maples 2022".
But my only palmatum in the ground changes colours very late, last year in November. The leaves are still very green, except those on a lower branch that are sun sorched.
Here are a couple of leaf shots of my 'Tana', still in summer mode. Ironically I received this as 'Shigarami' having ordering that one from Esveld a few years back. A shame really as I wanted 'Shigarami' ever since seeing it in the second edition of Vertrees many moons ago.
After the rocky start I am getting to like 'Tana', and seem to have cured it of the branch dieback issues it came with. I am certain of the ID despite the wrong provenance, it ticks all the boxes:
- Leaves divided to halfway
- Triangular leaf lobes
- Margins barely serrated
- Leaf edges cupped upwards
- Branches and twigs tend to be horizontal
I don't have 'Tana' but I remember the leaf shape is more like Tsuma types?
So I agree with you about wrong leaf shape. Good idea to see what next spring brings E.
That's especially interesting since that's where this one came from. I ordered to get some A. acuminatum (as it turns out, grafted on pseudoplatanus) and a heldreichii, so filled in with a few JMs: a decent small Berrima Bridge, something called Gene's Dissectum, and Tana, which I've been wanting to get for years. But I feel like it really hit or miss with getting the cultivars correct these days. I've sent the a query, but no response yet. They're usually pretty good about replacing if they can.
You could ask them to replace it with a Shigarami, lol, sounds like the best way to get a Tana.
LOL, excellent idea!
Couple of jungle end of the garden shots
Shirazz - Gwen’s Rose Delight : lol I quite like it’s new colouration - I wonder how long that will last - has anyone else experienced this?
Extravaganza - looking better this year than last - increased shaded location.
Ruby Cascade and Citrine Cascade standards - I am generally not so keen on high graft standards but I picked them up in a national garden centre chain for £20 each not bad for 1.4m plants, pretty thick root stock - bit crispy but not bad.