Sources of CITRUS ICHANGENSIS in US?

Discussion in 'Citrus' started by JHI7b/8a, Oct 13, 2018.

  1. JHI7b/8a

    JHI7b/8a New Member

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    There are legit no sources I could find of this. No seeds or plants in the US.
     
  2. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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  3. SoCal2warm

    SoCal2warm Member

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    Rolling Rivers in the Bay Area also carries Ichang papeda, but their nursery is within one of the zones in the state that is currently under quarantine, so they are not shipping any of their citrus.
    (If you're close to Oakland, in the SanFrancisco area, they may be worth checking out, but that area is technically in climate zone 10 so if you live there you could grow early ripening mandarins)
     
  4. SoCal2warm

    SoCal2warm Member

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    20190402_150403.jpg
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    April 2
     
  5. SoCal2warm

    SoCal2warm Member

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    For those of you in the future reading this discussion (2019) you might check Logee's 3 or 4 years from now.
     
  6. SoCal2warm

    SoCal2warm Member

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    Here's a cutting of Citrus ichangensis
    20190415_215358.jpg
    Apparently they are really easy to root under the right conditions.
    This is only 10 days old and you can already see it's putting out new leaf growth.
    It's in a warm place and covered with plastic wrap to hold in the humidity.
     
  7. SoCal2warm

    SoCal2warm Member

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    If anyone is wondering about the exact hardiness of C. ichangensis, it's hardy down to the border between 8a/7b in the South, while in Europe it is only hardy down to the warmer half of zone 8a, in the colder half of 8a it might freeze some Winters.

    I'm sure it would survive in Vancouver, but probably only within the city area.
     
  8. SoCal2warm

    SoCal2warm Member

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    Cistus Nursery in Portland, Oregon, has it. You'll have to call the owner many months ahead of time to ask him to propagate a new graft off the mother plant, and then you'll have to go there in person because they do not ship.
    It's not on their official list, but the owner may keep just a few in back, in his own collection. I don't think he has very many. (In fact I think I may have taken the last one they had yesterday, so it may be a while before they have some available to sell again)

    They also have Flying Dragon and a very small number of Citrumelo.


    I was personally shown that One Green World has collected it, but it's still a very small plant right now (only 4 or 5 inches high) and will be a long time until it grows bigger and they propagate enough of them to offer them for sale. (C. ichangensis can be kind of a slow grower too)

    I saw that One Green World had propagated a large number of Sudachi, which can manage to survive outside in the area, so I don't think there's any worry about them selling out of those.
    (Sudachi has Yuzu parentage, which in turn is believed to have ancestry from ichangensis, so they are closely related)
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
  9. SoCal2warm

    SoCal2warm Member

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    Looks like there's a tiny fruit just beginning to form on my new Ichang papeda 20190507_184156.jpg


    (I think it probably was kept in a greenhouse before I picked it up yesterday, I think this variety is normally reluctant to set fruits in this cooler climate)
     
  10. SoCal2warm

    SoCal2warm Member

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    Origins of Ichang Papeda

    Journal of Agricultural Research, Department of Agriculture, Volume 1, Washington D.C., October 10, 1913
    Citrus ichangensis, A promising, hardy, new species from Southwestern China and Assam, article by Walter T. Swingle

    some excerpts:

    " This species is cultivated in the vicinity of Ichang, and it bears a very large lemonlike fruit that is of sufficiently good quality to cause it to be shipped to markets several hundred miles distant.
    In China this species occurs in an undoubted wild state in the hills of the Upper Yangtze Valley from Ichang west and southwest in Hupeh, Szechwan, and Kwichow, growing at altitudes of 1,500 to 6,000 feet. In Assam a closely related but slightly different form is found at an altitude of 5,000 to 6,000 feet in the Khasi Hills.

    The species thus ranges over a region at least 1,500 miles long and some 500 miles wide.

    This plant is reported in all parts of its range as growing in a truly wild state and is cultivated on a small scale around Ichang along the Yangtze River, where the fruit is called the "Ichang lemon" by foreigners.

    The typical Citrus ichangensis as it occurs in southwestern China is a small tree or a large shrub, usually 5 to 15 feet high (1.5 to 5 meters), but sometimes reaching 20 feet. It also occurs wild in fruiting condition only 2 to 3 feet high on the cliffs of the Yangtze Gorges. "

    The article also makes mention to both a wild and cultivated form with slightly better fruit quality.

    " Mr. E. H. Wilson informs the writer that the form of this species cultivated in the Ichang region yields an excellent fruit known to foreign residents of the Yangtze Vallet as the "Ichang lemon." These fruits are shipped down the river to Hankow and west well into Szechwan, and are so much esteemed as to command good prices.

    So far as is now known, Citrus ichangensis is native farther north than any other evergreen species of Citrus, only the deciduous Citrus trifoliata having a more northerly range. Besides having the northernmost range of any known evergreen species of Citrus it occurs at the highest altitudes reported for any wild species of the genus. In the Hsingshan District, in latitude 31° 10', Mr. Wilson collected this plant at an altitude of 4,200 feet, and Pére Cavalerie found it in central Kweichow at a height of 5,577 feet. "


    I'm looking at a map and the Chinese city of Yichang seems just a little further north of Changsha, about 320 km northwest.

    That would lead me to believe that, while they may technically constitute separate species, the Changsha mandarin may just effectively be a natural evolutionary progression on the branch off between Ichang papeda and mandarins, which are native to the region a little bit further to the southeast.
    Yuzu might possibly be on this continuum as well. Ancient Chinese texts refer to "oranges" (thought by modern scholars to be Yuzu) growing on the upper banks of the Yangtze river, and that area runs between the Yichang and Changsha area, much closer to Yichang than Changsha.
     
  11. biochemist89

    biochemist89 New Member

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    Is there a vriant of ichang papeda that is edible? I heard that ichang papeda offer unstable quality of fruits. Someone claimed that some of the fruits might be at the quality of a true lemon.

    I have seen pictures of the IVIA ichang papeda at other forums, and I've noticed the abnormal thickness of the leaves compared to the common ichang papeda in the US. I know some one who has the seedless version of ichang papeda in the US, but it does not look similar to the IVIA in the Europe.
     
  12. biochemist89

    biochemist89 New Member

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    Are you sure it took only 10 days to get that big shoot? My friend grafted a branch of ichang papeda on an extremely vigorous poncirus rootstock and it took 4 weeks to put out a little bud. If it took only 10 days to put out that large shoot then it should be even more vigorous than a normal lemon variety. The last time I grafted a eureka lemon branch on a poncirus rootstock, it took 3 weeks to get a shoot that is about the same size as yours.
     
  13. SoCal2warm

    SoCal2warm Member

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    It was growing indoors inside a warm grow enclosure, with plenty of humidity inside the enclosure (and because the cup it was initially in was covered with plastic wrap), and under constant artificial light that's always on, so that probably sped up growth. But yes, citrus often grows much faster on its own roots than when on poncirus rootstock.

    Here's one of the rooted Ichang cuttings I planted outside a month ago. It seems to be doing well.
    20190822_181313.jpg

    It had been growing inside for several months, and then transitioned outside in a container in the shade for 2 weeks, before going into the ground. Keeping it frequently watered.

    To answer your question, I think there are a few different cultivars of Ichang papeda, some with slightly better fruit quality, but I don't think they're really that different from each other. (I don't really know though)
    There's also of course Ichang lemon, which apparently is a Pomelo x Ichang papeda hybrid. It has big juicy fruits that are almost like lemons. It's definitely not as cold hardy as Ichang papeda though.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
  14. SoCal2warm

    SoCal2warm Member

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    update on the Ichang papeda from the above post
    This picture taken February 13
    20200213_145915.jpg
    Olympia, WA, zone 8a
     
  15. SoCal2warm

    SoCal2warm Member

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    If any of you are in Portland, there's one in the Lan Su Chinese garden in the downtown, and also one at the Hoyt Arboretum.
    I have seen both of them.

    The one at the Hoyt Arboretum is about 5 feet tall, against the wall on the side of the visitors center. They also have a Wollemi pine not far away.
    It was full of little yellow fruits that did not look as big as they should be, but half of them appeared ripe in color.

    The one in the Lan Su garden is in one of the smaller little courtyards and is right up against the outer wall of the garden. (near the Scholar's Study building)
    I've seen green undeveloped fruits on it.
     
  16. SoCal2warm

    SoCal2warm Member

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    I'll just post this here to archive it:

    Thread title: "can you grow citrus in north Carolina?"
    Gardenweb
    _____________________________________________________
    lorabell_gw
    November‎ ‎13‎, ‎2016‎

    I've a crazy gardener friend here in Fayetteville NC

    > picture of bowl of lemons <
    NorthCarolinaFayettvilleLemons.jpg

    who has a lemon tree , outside, about 20 years old. She picked bushels of lemons on Thursday and I was the recipient of about 40 lbs of them. They do nothing for overwintering. About 5 years ago I started a baby with some of the yearly stash and it too is outside doing great with no winter protection.
    ____________________________________________________
    calamondindave
    December‎ ‎14‎, ‎2016

    A poster on the Citrus forum says the lemon fruit in the above picture looks exactly like an "Ichang lemon". After googling it, I think it does too. It's pretty cold hardy.
    ____________________________________________________
    can you grow citrus in north carolina?


    According to a climate zone map, Fayetteville seems to be right on the border between 8a and 7b.

    So that seems to be about the limit of what Ichang lemon can handle in the hot climate of the South.
    (Keep in mind North Carolina has a lot more heat than cooler climates further North, so that's certainly going to be helping it grow better and recover more rapidly from any damage)


    The size of the "lemons" in the bowl looked intermediate in size, like they could have either been Ichang papeda or Ichang lemon. Considering the climate zone of where the tree was growing, it almost certainly had to have been Ichang papeda. But she says they were "great tasting", possibly making it more likely they had to be Ichang lemon.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2020

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