Simple Red Dragon Japanese Maple Questions

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Nico2012, Apr 3, 2015.

  1. Nico2012

    Nico2012 New Member

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    Greetings all, first time poster and a novice to tree's in general, I have some simple questions that maybe someone may assist with.

    Late last fall I purchased two Red dragon Japanese maples from the discount section for $10 each, they retailed for roughly $180 originally. I left them in their original pots and put them in a sheltered section of my backyard during the winter. They definitely need some TLC and I was hoping you experts may have some suggestions to "jump start them" this spring.

    I plan on planting them in pots roughly 4 times their existing pot size and potentially plant them in the ground sometime in the future. I really just know the basics, don't plant too deep, place mulch on top, keep the soil moist and shelter from the wind. They'll have a lot of sun and I'll purchase any plant food recommended.


    Regards,
    Adam
     

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  2. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    I think your climate is a little too cold for growing Japanese maples in containers without additional protection in the winter. They would be fine in ground as it offers additional insulation to the roots, but if you plan on keeping them in containers they would need to be wintered in an unheated garage or outbuilding or similar.

    Hopefully they have managed to come through this first winter ok, it depends how sheltered your sheltered section was. There are some new leaves which is a good sign, but they are low down on the trunk which is not so good. It will soon be clear if the tops have survived.

    Good luck!
     
  3. Nico2012

    Nico2012 New Member

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    I appreciate the response maf, I could keep them in my garage during the winter no problem. So, I guess I should wait for another week or so before putting my efforts into potting them? I suspect I'm just looking for buds at the higher part of the plant?
     
  4. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Yeah, just give them a week or three and see if the upper parts leaf out. Or, if you can post a picture of a close-up of the buds and twigs, some growers here may be able to tell if the branches are alive or not. You could also try scraping the bark on a small twig and see if there are signs of life in the layer immediately below the bark (green and moist rather than dried and/or brittle).
     
  5. Schattenfreude

    Schattenfreude Active Member

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    Adam,
    I'm in zone 6 and all of my maples are budding now, some have even leafed out. I'm surprised that you're not seeing any leaves by now! If the limbs up top aren't showing any signs of life, it could be that birds have eaten all of your buds, in which case you'll have to wait for the secondary set of buds to set. Can you see any buds forming along the branches?

    Those are some beautiful trees you got, especially for that price! Now would be an ideal time to repot the trees and untangle the roots. You don't want to mess with the roots much after trees have leafed out. Next winter you'll want to bury the pot in the ground to keep the roots from freezing if you don't have room in your un-heated garage.

    Good luck with the new trees!
    Kevin in KC
     
  6. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Adam.. What i am going to say is which angle i myself would approcach this problem from.Firstly remember you have only spent $20 on these trees so you are already in a winning position, and whatever happens what have you lost? you can't even have a decent night out for what you have spent.

    This is how i would try and revive the two trees ,looking at them you seem to have quite a large amount of dead wood in there and has already commented on, no budding taking place from what we can see (pics of the trees from above and closer would help).

    Now i am in a totally different zone to you, Europe 8 more temperate climate and not as cold,but saying that we have had a good cold snowy winter over here which has certainly helped putting the growth back to it's normal rate which you would expect to see.

    So what i would do next is the following,remove all the dead wood on top,then remove the side growths they serve no purpose to the tree what so ever and actually stop vitally needed sugars and sap supplies reaching the canopy,remember this is a standard tree and the idea is you have a long stemed trunk with a large canopy on the top which over a period of time will cascade down symetrically and give off an appearence of a large domed/mushroomed shaped tree, having the odd branch sticking out half way down is not a good idea.

    Then i would remove from the containers and examine the root systems on both,try not to damage the bottom feeder roots and just trim lightly round the sides,a bit late to be doing this but needs must, also try and remove some of the old growing medium which the side roots will be tangled up in.

    Finally i would be planting these out, they will have more chance of survival in the ground than in containers remember you are trying to breath life back into them,there are far more nutrients in the ground than what you can give them in a container, these cannot be replicated by throwing chemicals at them let mother nature heal!! remember only $20 invested,will probably take a couple of seasons to see any significant change ie: new budding taking place.

    Have attached 3 pics firstly my Red Dragon lifted last fall after putting on tremendous growth in the ground over two seasons, secondly a Palmatifidum bought two seasons ago had quite alot of dead wood and an extra branch near the base all removed and this is now coming on in leaps and bounds amazing growth and plenty of new budding taking place,finally a Tamukeyama bought 8 years ago,resembled your two trees when first planted very spindly and small canopy now it's touching the floor just what standard trees are supposed to end up like.

    Good luck on what ever you decide to do,remember this was only how i would tackle this problem,you will probably get more ideas from other growers/bloggers etc,who have far more experience than myself.

    I can only speak from my own personal experience with JM over the years and what seems to work for me and my trees,if any of my container trees look jaded they are quickly planted out until they are revived then re-potted the following season,and the same goes for my long time ground planted trees,soon as they start to get to big up they come and in a nice large container they go (keeps me busy!!)
     

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  7. patdero1

    patdero1 Active Member Maple Society

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    I'm in south east Pa zone 6b still dormant. Give it a few weeks.
    Pat
     
  8. Schattenfreude

    Schattenfreude Active Member

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    Adam,
    For some odd reason I thought I'd read where you are in zone 7 (thinking coastal BC), hence my comment. Now I see that you're in Ontario or New Brunswick, which is a different story! Your maples are probably still dormant and given your pics, it appears that there are buds.

    Now is the ideal time to repot with a well-draining potting medium. Do not use a basic potting soil from Home Depot or such! Amend such a soil with pine bark to reduce the amount of peat that will hold too much water and basically drown your roots over time. I buy a pine bark soil conditioner, sift out the big chunks (use these as mulch), then mix in perlite, compost and some slow-release fertilizer.

    I'd also recommend untangling all of the roots, which is usually only possible by using a hose with nozzle to bare all of the roots. Yes, you rinse off all of the dirt! With no soil left, you can see what the roots are doing and trim off the larger roots that look like a hook or those that wrap around another root. Keep as many of the fine roots as possible. Do not allow the roots to dry out as you mess with them! Have the new soil ready to go and promptly plant the tree in your new pots, spreading the roots out, watering well and staking the tree.

    I'll admit, that this is a major chore, especially if those trees have been in those 5- or 7-gallon pots for several years. The trees will thank you, however, and reward you for your efforts :-)

    Kevin in KC
     
  9. Nico2012

    Nico2012 New Member

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    Maf, Schattenfreude, Roebuk and Patdero1 I appreciate all your responses greatly, thank you very much. I’m looking for some additional clarification especially about the following:

    1. Removing the dead wood, from what I can tell the only dead wood is the ends of some branches that are white? Roughly several stems 2-4 cm’s long

    2. When I remove the containers, I’m supposed to trim some of the side roots before repotting / grounding the plants? How can I determine the old growing medium, will it be easy to determine once I remove the containers?

    Adam

    Edit: The more I read online the more I'm comfortable with this task, very exciting, probably re-potting them Tuesday. I considered moving them to the ground but the majority of my land gets full sun.. I believe it would be safer to do the year or two after without a proper irrigation system.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2015
  10. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Adam..Find pics of a dead branch i removed today from a large Atropurpureum.
    As you can see totally dead, bark colouration non exsistent and starting to mottle and change to a sandy/cream colour, bark just tears back from the cambium with no moisture present, will just snap went bent in any direction

    The buds have no signs of any growth and are starting to turn black and wither,so anything that resembles this on your trees just remove as much has you are likely to presume are dead,if you are not to sure just leave until later in the season when you should have a clearer picture of the health of the tree re:new budding and leafing.

    The growing medium will have probably been in the same container for most of the trees life when it was re-potted.

    Just remove from containers, and i then usually remove old medium with a pressure hose, don't get to close with the nozzle and you will find it comes off quite easily don't remove all the medium completely, leave the central mass. You will then be left with an array of dangling side roots which you can just trim lightly round the sides.

    Finally select a new growing medium,i tend to use pine bark chippings, moss peat and horticultural grit and some slow release fertilizer (everyone has there own mix)

    When re potting make sure you try and get the new medium well mixed into the root system with no air pockets and gaps,water well over the next few weeks and you should revitalise your trees. Good luck
     

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  11. Nico2012

    Nico2012 New Member

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    Man you guys are amazing, thanks so much ROEBUK.
     
  12. Nico2012

    Nico2012 New Member

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    Can anyone confirm that these are good products?

    I was planning on doing 60% Pine Bark %20 Peat Moss and %20 Perlite. I included two images of Perlite, I have quite the selection, not really sure which one to choose as they all do the same thing it seems... devils in the details?

    I'm just surprised no actual soil is needed for this..... a recommendation of fertilizer would be great... something readily available preferably.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 8, 2015
  13. Schattenfreude

    Schattenfreude Active Member

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    Adam,

    Any product from Premier should be excellent. As far as perlite goes, buy whatever is cheapest and/or coarsest. A slow-release fertilizer such as Osmocote should feed your trees all summer long. Here in the states, Espoma and Forest Farm both make organic fertilizers that are granular and can be mixed into your potting mix. I would think that they're also available in Canada, too.

    Can't wait to see your new trees all potted up! Good luck!

    Kevin in KC
     

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