Sick Maple

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Buzzbee, Jun 27, 2006.

  1. Buzzbee

    Buzzbee Active Member

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    Any suggestions what would be causing this 8 year old maple to die? The soil is good and it is well cared for. This started happening in the spring when it started coming into leaf. other plants in the same garden area, rhodo, azalea, small juniper are all thriving.
    We realize that we have to remove it but would like to replant with the same if possible but are reluctant to do so if the area is "diseased". I am hoping the attached photo will help.
    thanks (am new to this)
     

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  2. Laurie

    Laurie Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    From the photograph, it does not look like the tree is doomed yet. Could you post some close-up photographs of the remaining leaves and twigs, and the leafless branches and twigs, especially any areas of discoloration?
     
  3. Buzzbee

    Buzzbee Active Member

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    thanks , will take more detailed photos tomorrow morning and then re post.
     
  4. Galt

    Galt Active Member

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    Verticillum.
    Search this form for other threads relating to Verticillium. You will need to remove all of the dead or dying wood which will encompass nearly all of the canopy. Once cut back to a short trunk you can hope that come new growth emerges. In any case the tree will be severly disfigured as you will be "starting over" if it survives. I would imagine you will want to remove it.

    There is usually some precipitating incident of stress the causes verticillium to take hold, but not necessarily. Why your tree became weaked enough for the infection to take over is something you may or may not be able to answer. At this point it does not greatly matter.

    regards,
    GALT
     
  5. Laurie

    Laurie Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Seriously, how do you make a diagnosis with the photograph taken that far away and with all of the shadows on branches? Also, if that is indeed the diagnosis, then it seems that another maple should not be planted there, correct? Not even a maple in a pot, because any roots that were to grow out of the pot could be infected?
     
  6. Galt

    Galt Active Member

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    The same way you make a supposed diagnosis from a closeup photo--I make a guess based on what I have seen from the photo. If you look close enough you can see tell-tale coloration on some of the wood. The condition of the remaining leaves as well as the typical or characteristic pattern of dieback. Someone has also taught me what to look for and I have seen it enough for myself. I am not saying it is the only disease in the maple, but I believe it is the primary cause of that plant's demise.

    Really, doesn't it get old that we continually debate what is and what isn't verticillium. Do you think a superficial fungal or bacterial attack killed that maple? Does it really look like it can be salvaged?

    I think it is characteristic verticillium dieback and if I could site textbook with a photo that good, I would call it "textbook verticillium dieback in maples", but since I don't know of any book that has dedicated itself to a discussion of that sort with supporting photos and practical advice, I hope that my arguement stands alone and that it can be compared with other posts and threads in this form and that at some point pepole will start to see it for themselves--the commonality linking many maple deaths together.

    Can that site be replanted--that is a personal choice as I do not fully belive the textbook and reference authors that say not to. They say that verticillium can live in the soil for many years, but will it effect the maple and is the fungus in the soil or in the maple--probably both in this case. So the safest route would be to replant with a resistant or non-suseptible species.

    GALT
     
  7. Buzzbee

    Buzzbee Active Member

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    here are some close ups. Hope not too many. Thoughts now???
    Thanks
     

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    Last edited: Sep 2, 2006
  8. jimweed

    jimweed Active Member 10 Years

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    Hi Buzz, if got rid of that Maple, Daniel could use your lawn for his photo of the day! Jim.
     
  9. Buzzbee

    Buzzbee Active Member

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    Jim Weed

    thanks, can always take the photo from another angle so the poor maple isn't in the shot, there is lots of grass there to look at.
    lol
     
  10. Laurie

    Laurie Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I read in the Maples forum, that members have noticed color changes as indication of Verticillium, e.g. black and white; brown and orange; green streaks, although the absence of such is not diagnostic. Have you checked this maple for any color changes? I found an interesting article, which deals with replanting in a spot where Verticillium is present: http://www.treesforyou.org/Planting/TreeCare/Healthy/vertwilt.htm. I know someone who brought in soil; some time later, one of his older potted Acer palmatum placed over that soil was killed by Verticillium. His conclusion: the transplanted soil was contaminated, and the tree contracted the fungus through the roots growing out into the soil. I have never seen Verticillium, so as an aside and given the description of color changes, would the young A. circinatum in this photograph have Verticillium? I lost this one-gallon over the winter, but I didn’t think it was Verticillium, but an infection?
    NOTE: photograph moved to entry below.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2006
  11. mjh1676

    mjh1676 Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Any lesions on the bark? Open or closed? What did the missing wood look like? It seemst he tree was pruned before the photo. How long was the decline? Any leaf symptoms?

    With a tree of that caliper, it would be possilbe to see characteristic interior wood discoloration if you were to cut into it. If it is dead and you do remove it. post a cross section.

    The photo you posted gives the impression of verticillium, but the coloration is not intense enough to say for sure. More info would be needed on this one.
     
  12. Laurie

    Laurie Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    [FONT=&quot]Mike, do you also think that Buzzbee’s tree has Verticillium? Mine had no problem with the leaves in fall, no buds in spring, no discoloration of the interior wood at the pruning cut before the photograph was taken on March 25, died over the winter, has no lesions and lots of discoloration. With Buzzbee’s tree so much older, would a cross-section show the “characteristic interior discoloration?†For ease of review, I have moved the photograph of this young two-gallon tree from above. Looking at both the first and second photographs, the first cut was made above the ‘y’ in the trunk, which now is at 9:00; the second cut was made just below the ‘y’ and above the speckled discoloration, which now is at 7:00; the third cut was made just below the pruning cut where there is speckled discoloration, which now lies at 2:00 at the right end of the trunk section; the fourth cut was made in the middle of the smoky white area, which now is at 6:00 and has a small dot in the center of the wood; the fifth cut was made below the smoky white area, which now is at 5:00 and has a small dot in the center of the wood; the sixth cut was made several inches below where there is no discoloration, which now is at 4:00; the seventh cut was made several inches still below and is at center. I hope I have all of this straight.
    [/FONT]
     

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  13. jimweed

    jimweed Active Member 10 Years

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    Hi Laurie, just thought I would find you a picture of what Verticilium Wilt looks from a cross section cut of a Maple.
    http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/3000/3053.html
    This is the link I got the pic from, it's short and sweet, and easy to read.
    Hope this helps a bit.
    Jim
     

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  14. Buzzbee

    Buzzbee Active Member

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    a cross cut does not look like that.
    four years ago we had underground sprinklers installed and the "box" that houses the valves is located near the maple. The box is open ended and after a heavy rain it is often full of water.
    We have since had proper drainage put into the lawn so it does not have as much water in now. With the dry weather we have had the only time the box is somewhat full is after the sprinklers have been on. It drains away gradually.
    this pictures shows the box, at the time it was taken the box was empty of water so no point showing inside it.
    The water level has not changed we are just aware of it now with the sprinkler box access.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2006
  15. Buzzbee

    Buzzbee Active Member

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    What I should have said is the cross cut of our Sick Maple does not look like the one in Jim Weed's photo.
     
  16. jimweed

    jimweed Active Member 10 Years

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    Buzzbee, I still seem to think that poor little tree drowned. Your water table sits so high for 6+ months of the year that maybe the Maple roots just rot. But why it doesn't seem to effect any of the other plants there I have no idea. Maybe some else in the forum could explain if it's possible for the water to only effect the Maple?
    ps. will be by on Friday to spray the crabgrass. Jim.
     
  17. Laurie

    Laurie Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Earlier this year, both of my Oridino nishiki, one of the earlier cultivars to leaf out, were really hit by aphids, and possibly not enough water. One tree suffered loss of probably 1/3 to 2/5 of the leaves. Several weeks went by without any new growth, so I pruned every branch and twig back to the last set of leaves, and shortly thereafter I saw new growth. That is why, if it were me, I would prune every branch and twig on this specimen back to healthy green wood. In another thread I read that one should expect to see new buds in about four weeks. I would definitely sterilize the pruners afterwards, just in case. Regarding generation of new root growth and applying rose care to trees, would the following make sense: fertilize the tree with a water soluble fertilizer, e.g. 0-10-10 – Alaska Morbloom, for the readily available phosphorus; and shovel prune the roots, as if preparing the tree for a move when dormant, to generate new feeder roots? I would definitely follow the first suggestion, but not the later until someone with more expertise on saving trees comments on whether it will actually help or harm this specimen.
     
  18. graftedmaplecollector

    graftedmaplecollector Active Member 10 Years

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    Living in a near swamp condition I have noticed root rot has black spots on the trunks of acers everytime. I don't see any there.
     
  19. Galt

    Galt Active Member

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    A couple of maples I have seen planted in wet condtions and subsequently being effected by root rot also showed infection of the wood by pseudomonas. Pseudomonas can enter through the roots and is visible as both open and closed back discolorations on the bark. It is true, we do not see that sort of marking on this tree, but that does not mean a root rot was not involved.

    GALT
     
  20. Buzzbee

    Buzzbee Active Member

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    Thanks for all the input. It is appreciated.

    If it is rotting would it not have shown signs before now??
    We have a very large Maple in our back yard and it is in the same soil and is doing beautifully.

    If we removed it this fall, and put it in a large pot and babied it over the winter could we possibly save it?? Or would that put too much stress on it?
    I don't know much about trees but I do know now would not be a good time to move it.

    At least we would know if water was the problem, once it was dug up.

    Thoughts anyone.
     
  21. Buzzbee

    Buzzbee Active Member

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    Jim Weed was by and took a look at the some of the roots(dug around ) The ground was very wet although yesterday was sprinkling day and it was not warm yesterday.

    We are going to remove it and look closely at the roots etc. and I will report the results, but not til the fall. Don't want to disturb everything else.

    Thanks again for all your help

    Buzz
     
  22. Laurie

    Laurie Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    By matching the photographs of the Acer circinatum specimen in entry #12 above with the photographs of verticillium wilt of maples in Sinclair, W. et al., Diseases of Trees and Shrubs 2nd Ed. (Cornell 2005), the tree above definitely succumbed to verticillium wilt. A second specimen of Acer circinatum has since died of it as well, but this specimen was planted in the ground last fall, and weakly put out a few unhealthy leaves, most of which curled just before the tree died. Both specimens are from the same source and used to grow near each other in pots, when their roots escaped the pot and grew into the soil.
     

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  23. jumbojimmy

    jumbojimmy Active Member

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    is there a cure for verticulumn wit?

    i have a maple tree and what i notice is there are some branches die... i don't understand what could be the reason and the remedy for it?
     
  24. Buzzbee

    Buzzbee Active Member

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    The plans are to remove the maple this coming weekend. At the same time we are going to remove all of the plants and replace all of the soil that we can with fresh soil. If water seems to be a problem we will add sand, and add drainage from this small garden into the lawn drain that was installed this summer.
    We want another tree there, any suggestions what we can put there??. Assuming that water may be an issue. Does not matter if it is evergreen or not. Don't want a very large tree there, so would have to be a dwarf variety or one that could be easily pruned. Suggestions anyone?? The other plants growing in this same space, two azaleas, one small rhodo, misc. bulbs and small perennials will all be replanted at the time of the tree planting. The photos are above.

    Thanks
     

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