sequioa question

Discussion in 'Gymnosperms (incl. Conifers)' started by timh, Oct 12, 2006.

  1. timh

    timh Member

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    i have a redwood sequioa and live in northern michigan zone 5 and it really grew quite well this summer,planted 6-22-06 at 10 3/4 inches and measured last week at 15 1/4 inches.is that good growth?the hardest thing will be getting it through the winter.i bought from a guy on ebay and he told me to cover whole tree in snow.i instead covered it with a bucket...will this be ok? also...i though about putting cow manure all around tree for winter months..i already have mulch around tree but its not touching tree..would cow manure hurt tree in anyway if its touching tree?..hope someone can answer these questions..thanks to all those that can give me some advice
     
  2. Aussiebob

    Aussiebob Active Member

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    do you know if it's a giant sequoia (spiny leaves) or a coast redwood (alternating small, thin 1/2" leaves)?

    I live in Vancouver BC and have both in my backyard - which I planted about 6 years ago....the Coast took off and I'm getting well over 4' a year out of it...the giant is a few feet behind but not much....they are both over 25' now

    When they were younger (I planted them from seedlings) I got between 6" and 2' a year out of them - but they are literally flying now....

    I haven't used cow manure or anything similar on them at all.....they both like lotsa moisture so right through sprinng/summer/autumn - when I get home from work I go out and hose the leaves etc down and give them a good soaking (a psychologist would probably call it some form of therapy).....they take in water from fog etc - so they like the moisture on their leaves etc....

    What I did when they were young was put a few other plants in pots around their base - to protect the roots etc from the cold.....it seemed to work......bark mulch or something similar may work as well. Bare in mind that we don't get extreme cold winters here (Zone 7-8ish).

    Being that it's not too high - you may want to stake some hesian or a garbage bag etc around it - to protect it from cold wind etc......I wouldn't completely enclose it.....some weak light during the winter would probably do it good etc.....

    Remember - if it's in the ground.....give it lotsa water....they are a rain forest plant so- so more is better....

    There are a bunch of great sites....about redwoods....

    http://home.hiwaay.net/~redwood/index.html

    http://www.giant-sequoia.com/index.php

    http://www.redwoodworld.co.uk/native.htm

    http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/trees/family.htm#S

    Cheers
     
  3. timh

    timh Member

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    its giant squioa (spiney leaves)thanks so much for your advice...i watered them everyday since june my wife is hoping they die because i spend so much time kneeling down and babying it i spend lots of my my free time caring for them.i will not plant coastal redwood...they are i believe a zone 8 tree,i live in zone 5 and may in future try to plant a zone 6 tree but thats about as far as i will go.there is a city 45 minutes away from me that has largest squioa in the east...manistee michigan i went there for first time tuesday and those trees(4) are huge! they were planted 74 years ago if anyone wants to see pictures i will be glad to post them. my trees need that mild elnino they are talking about this year...we have three inches of snow now...i have them covered..i have been told that if roots freeze up they will die for sure...would hate to water them during day and get down in low thirtys at night and freeze on me..i may be asking few more quetions as they come to me...thanks so much for all the info you gave me..thanks alot tim
     
  4. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Manistee is on the lake shore so it gets the full benefit of the lake effect snow. If you're further off the lake, it won't be easy for you to grow. Maybe a thick layer of mulch (just loose plant matter, not manure) put down about now might help.

    Some pics of the Manistee trees would be nice - interesting to compare them with UK-grown specimens.
     
  5. Aussiebob

    Aussiebob Active Member

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    if ever you get out to the west coast......you should cruise some of the Redwood forsts/groves in Nth California (both Giant and Coast).....pretty amazing.......no matter how many pictures, books or tv documentaries you see on them etc.....nothing compares to walking amongst these beasts....I do the loop annually....Vancouver, Down the I5 to Mt Shasta/Redding in Nth Cal - then across to the coast and then up the coast back to Vancouver....camping and lots of bushwalking (and beachcombing in oregon).....all the way......totally wow!!!!!!
     
  6. kalmia

    kalmia Active Member

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    Are you 45 minutes inland from those trees you mentioned? Anther thing, in addition to lake effect snow, there is a warming effect of the lake. The winds generally blow from the west, warming lower Michigan in winter.

    I don't think manure up next to them would be good. Maybe spread out around them but not touching. If you feel like puting something up against them, Maybe use straw. I have used it around newly planted stuff. There is a lot available at this time of year.

    I too would like to see the pics of the trees you mentioned. I also would like to know of any that are somewhat close to me, especially sizable ones. I live in northwest Indiana next to Chicago. I am about 8 miles from the lake.
     
  7. timh

    timh Member

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    here are a few pictures...quility may not be the best.i live forty five minutes east of manistee and we get a ton of lake effect snow.i will send pictures of my sequioa in my yard this afternoon..i have to dig out my boots...we are getting hammered with snow as i type this.i think my bigger tree will survive but my smaller seedlings which are around 15 inches may have tough winter.i will take a few pictures of them also..here are the pictures of manistee sequioa.

    what i do not understand is the are 4 diffrent sequioas on site and they were planted on same day..3 are huge and one is about 20-25 feet.the bigger ones are more surrounded by other trees and has more shade..the smaller one is right out in open with full exposure to sun.i thought sequioas love moisture and lots of sun??i guess i will have to make it out to the redwood forests and see the growing patterns out there. they also have a dawn redwood there that is as big as largest sequioa.would dawn redwoods be a better fit for me to grow if sequioas die in spring?.i have three in yard and got 4 1/2 inches of growth on them,but have been told once they get established they will really take off...thanks for all the input everyone has given me...tim
     

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  8. Aussiebob

    Aussiebob Active Member

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    Nice pictures....god I love those trees.....get a new haircute dude...that style went out about 10 years ago....

    The shorter one (out on it's own) may be shorter because it isn't competing or racing against others to get the best sun etc.....also - they need lotsa water.....remember Rainforest trees are smart....as a general rule they are tough, economical and ingenious and need a bit of competition so they can use their brains and elbow their way to the top of the heap.....

    Have a look on the net about the history of the Dawn Redwood......there are varying reports - some reports say that all the seeds/cuttings that came back from China in the late 40's were recovered from 1 (ONE) tree (other reports say that there was a whole valley of trees that they recovered seeds/cuttings from). There is also a little written that because of the lack of Ginetic Diversity etc - that new generations of the Dawn out here are suffering a little in a variety of ways....

    That being said.....there are a couple fo recently planted Dawns around here that I've had a look at and they are nice (but nowhere near as quick growing/sky reaching as a Coast). Also the Dawns lose their leaves in Autumn - The Coast doesn't.

    It's a bit fiddly etc....but if you are really concerned about the snow/cold.....you could try and re-pot your "little big tree" in a BIG BIG BIG pot and move it next to the house to give it a bit of shelter.

    If you have your heart set on growing big trees - that grow real fast....you may want to try some of the Eucalyptus trees from Australia....E.Regnans and a bunch of others from the cooler rainforests in Victoria and Tasmania will apparently do upto 12' per year....

    Cheers
     
  9. smivies

    smivies Active Member

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    A Eucalyptus in Michigan is not going to perform as advertised....

    The S. giganteum in the snowbelt of Michigan should do well. In cold climates, it's root temperatures that usually do them in way before leaf & branch temperatures. The roots are extremely sensitive to cold/freezing so that many of the successful specimens growing in the climatic extreme are those in snowbelts.

    Simon
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2006
  10. kalmia

    kalmia Active Member

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    Don't the giants in the wild get buried in snow in the winter?

    Also, we haven't had snow here, at least that I have noticed. It just dropped below freezing once Wednesday night/Thursday morning.
     
  11. Aussiebob

    Aussiebob Active Member

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    do they get burried in snow????

    probably yes and no.....

    I doubt the ones up around the 300'-350' high/tall get burried.....but some of the others upto maybe about 15-20' probably do......the Giant S. grow on the west faces of the sierra nevada mountains....and they do get snow.....but it's california snow......and that's not the real "man" snow ..... california isn't subjected to the real hardcore acrctic outfall cold either...if it get's below freezing in their natural settings - it's probably only a few degrees.....

    Cheers
     
  12. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    It's obvious - it's growing on its side on a vertical cliff :-))

    Actually, there's no way that small one is the same age as the others, it is a much more recent planting, maybe only 10-15 years ago or so. Maybe there used to be a fourth large one which died for some reason or other, and when they replaced it, they forgot to update the noticeboard?
     
  13. shuppy00

    shuppy00 Member

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    I want to reply but am not sure from the forum where it belongs. I will try here.

    Two years ago this fall I planted a sequoia gigantum in my back yard. It survived the first winter and now is doing very well after the second. I was told by the grower of the seedling just keep it moist and it has withstood some dryness. It is about two feet tall now and over a half inch in diameter. A friend of mine did the same with another of my seedlings and his has made it through, too. We are located 20 miles north of the Indiana border on the west side of the state, inland from the lake about 25 miles. I plan to shield it with burlap on four sides this winter. The ground has not frozen the last couple of winters and will that kill it. I do not know that it will. Certainly, Manistee has colder winters than we do and must have had the ground frozen in the last 74 years. And on the coast of Lake Michigan, the wind can be brutal. Lake Michigan freezes over almost every winter down here and must for sure at Manistee.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2008
  14. M. D. Vaden

    M. D. Vaden Active Member 10 Years

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    In that one image with the sign, it reads "Sequoia gigantea"

    Is that a coastal redwood where they added gigantea, or a Sequoiadendron that someone routed the old name for?

    The flare of the trunk looks like Giant Sequoia.
     
  15. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    "Sequoia gigantea" is just an old name for the species, from before Buchholz split it off into the new genus Sequoiadendron in 1939.
     
  16. dogseadepression

    dogseadepression Active Member

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    I have a ten inch giant sequoia that I got in indianapolis Indiana, I have it in a container right now, I have it growing at my house in Pesotum, IL.
     
  17. JoeySantore

    JoeySantore Active Member

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    The tree thats in full sun probably didn't get optimal growth because of winter sun burn - you have to realize that the climate is VERY different in the midwest compared with that of the sierra nevada. This causes problems for midwest growers trying to grow a lot of western species - especially pines - that are used to dry summers. Summer humidity can be damaging and so can -15F winters temps coupled with full exposure.

    In sequoiadendron's natural range the summers are dry - virtually eliminating many pest problems. In the midwest, the summers are humid, and for some reason this seems to hold back growth on them. Also, the winters in the midwest are far colder than those in the natural range of these trees, and it is not the sheer coldness that damages evergreens, but that compared with winter winds (which have wintense drying effect) and winter sun (intense sunlight in the winter when the plant is dormant and already losing water and drying due to harsh winds).

    Often times, where a tree is in a zone that is somewhat marginal, a planting instruction sheet will say "plant in a protected location" - meaning protection mainly from winds but also sun.

    Of course, it could just be genetics in terms of why the two sheltered trees are larger than the full-sun tree that was planted at the same time, but I doubt it. There's a giant sequoia "hazel smith" growing in chicago at a nursery on the north side, but it's butt up against a fence and quite sheltered.

    Another thing I'm guessing is that soil in Manistee is mostly absent of clay? Probably quite sandy and well-draining, thus making the normal root-rot that Sequoiadendron is prone to in the east not much of a problem. There's a sequoiadendron at the arboretum in D.C. - it was planted in 1986 and stands about 14 feet tall. Given optimal conditions, it should've been forty feet tall by now!
     

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