Seeds 2021

Discussion in 'Maples' started by AlainK, Mar 12, 2021.

  1. LoverOfMaples

    LoverOfMaples Generous Contributor Maple Society

    Messages:
    1,348
    Likes Received:
    1,718
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Hey E. Any questions are welcome. I hope i have the answer to most.

    The bags I use are biodegradable. I'm just now testing out how long the bags will last in the ground. I'm also testing how they will do in the Mississippi clay soil. I planted about 10 seedlings this pass weekend in the small white grow bags. I planted about 15-20 seedlings last year (not in grow bags) and the majority is still alive with out much growth.

    The small bags stand well on their own with the proper size tree in it. I still keep them in a normal size tray with drainage holes for organization. The high wall tray sound great for a larger tree in a smaller bag. Same for the concept for the larger trees. I haven't had a problem with any of them flopping over yet.

    So direct sun, the only problem I have with it is they need to watered more frequent. I have also been thinking about playing with the soil mix for those trees. Making a more water retaining mix due to the evaporation. The material seem to hold together well without any break down for the 3 years I've been using them (larger black bags).

    This is my first year using the small white bags and there are a wide range of sizes. I like to use these for the small bags, no certain brand.
    SmartSelect_20220628-095113_Amazon Shopping.jpg
    I also use 3g, 5g, 7g, and the biggest one is 15g. The larger bags are wider than tall. I'm guessing it's for stability, which I like.
    SmartSelect_20220628-102958_Amazon Shopping.jpg

    I haven't experimented with them over wintering in the open elements without protect. I mostly jam pack as many trees as I can in the greenhouses. The few that I put in the 15g bags this year will stay out. They will be insulated with leaves and wood chips as I've always done with the plastic pots.

    20220529_173246.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2022
    wind-borne, AlainK, kgeezy20 and 2 others like this.
  2. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    3,111
    Likes Received:
    2,493
    Location:
    Normandie, France
    Thanks for this D, great stuff and much appreciated. I just ordered some small biodegradable bags to try, and a pack of 3 gallon (11l) bags with handles. As you know I don't really have a use for the very large bags, since I'm trying to get stuff in the ground once it can survive.

    The Growneer brand seems to be out of stock over here for now, although it's listed on amazon. So I got some different brands. I will say that the bigger bags are _really_ expensive compared to high drainage pots (like 10x) and I use a lot; so I'm not sure switching over would be practical.

    I'll let you know how the experiment goes!
     
    LoverOfMaples likes this.
  3. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,975
    Likes Received:
    1,445
    Location:
    Northamptonshire, England
    I picked up some Gardenmate ones from Amazon last year, in 60L (16gal) and 95L (25gal) sizes, and bizarrely they were very good value, much cheaper than the more moderate sizes that are more useful for potting on. I guess they were not popular sizes and an algorithm reduced the price. Haven't used them yet (at least not for maples) but they will be trialled later this year. They are the polypropylene ones with a felt like texture, allegedly biodegradable.

    I started to worry I had made a poor choice when I saw claims that the fabric pots inhibit drainage, so I tried to fill one up with water... and the water just passed straight through as if it was a butterfly net!
     
    LoverOfMaples likes this.
  4. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    3,076
    Likes Received:
    3,965
    Location:
    nr Orléans, France (E.U.)
    Some seedlings from "dicky5ash". They probably get too much sun, it can get very hot on the cement of my stairs, like others, I'm planning to move them to a better place, but that's just to let him know that his seeds are - more or less - well-taken care of. ;-)

    I have two more in the grow tray, I will repot them as soon as I can.

    Semis21-Rich10_220629a.jpg
     
  5. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Generous Contributor

    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    1,788
    Location:
    Northampton Uk
    @AlainK fantastic! A good selection - hopefully you’ll get several interesting subjects..

    Did you manage to get any of the Japonicums or sieboldianums to germinate..I recall one packet of sieboldianums being included.

    Thanks for the update - looking great
     
  6. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    3,076
    Likes Received:
    3,965
    Location:
    nr Orléans, France (E.U.)
    Unfortunately not...
     
  7. kgeezy20

    kgeezy20 Active Member Maple Society

    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    89
    Location:
    Tennessee, United States
    Here’s some rubescens from this year showing a lot of variegation. I imagine these came off a variegated cultivar, though the pack just had the species name. Next is some pseudosieboldianum which all flushed out a dark red.
     

    Attached Files:

    dicky5ash, emery, maf and 1 other person like this.
  8. wind-borne

    wind-borne Rising Contributor

    Messages:
    268
    Likes Received:
    1,191
    Location:
    Oregon Coast
    2021 seedlings
    After reading here how 'Sango kaku' and dissectum seedlings have a high mortality rate and not having that much fun transplanting the other seedlings into small grow bags I decided to see what would survive if any, probably not a wise choice.
    Sango on left, seiryu on right in each pic
    DSCN1641.jpeg DSCN1637.jpeg

    We had a wet spring so my 2 month 0ld white grow bags are not so attractive as well as one of our cats topped a couple.
    green maple
    DSCN1628.jpeg DSCN1624.jpeg

    We usually have 6 months of pretty steady rain so I use biodegradable (18-24 month in ground) bags for bamboo for good drainage but find that other things enjoy that full body drainage.
    DSCN0517.jpeg DSCN0402.jpeg

    and bags are forgiving if I'm a little slow to give away divisions,
    today.
    DSCN1655.jpeg
     
    maf, LoverOfMaples and dicky5ash like this.
  9. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Generous Contributor

    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    1,788
    Location:
    Northampton Uk
    we must persist :) :)
     
  10. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Generous Contributor

    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    1,788
    Location:
    Northampton Uk
    Seedlings are doing very well!

    Do you know much about bambo? I have a black bamboo in a 60 litre pot..was doing well for 5years filling out and looking good..now seems to be dying back considerably..I have kept it watered like my JM in free draining soil.

    I’ve not fertilised it..I wonder if that’s the problem?
     
  11. wind-borne

    wind-borne Rising Contributor

    Messages:
    268
    Likes Received:
    1,191
    Location:
    Oregon Coast
    Black bamboo (Phyllostachys nigra) has been flowering worldwide for a few years now and a high percentage of plants die in the process.
    Have you noticed flowers?
    There are some other black bamboo but nigra is the most common.
     
    dicky5ash and maf like this.
  12. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Generous Contributor

    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    1,788
    Location:
    Northampton Uk
    Thanks - I didn’t notice flowers but it is nigra species
     
  13. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    3,111
    Likes Received:
    2,493
    Location:
    Normandie, France
    Here's the first try, stands up great. A. sinense 2021.
    20220701_191256.jpg

    I rolled the top down, ads a little stability and otherwise the pot was too deep.
     
    maf, LoverOfMaples and dicky5ash like this.
  14. LoverOfMaples

    LoverOfMaples Generous Contributor Maple Society

    Messages:
    1,348
    Likes Received:
    1,718
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Nice E. My I ask, where did you get the A. sinense seeds?
     
  15. kgeezy20

    kgeezy20 Active Member Maple Society

    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    89
    Location:
    Tennessee, United States
    I got some sinense seed from the seed exchange last year. Germinated readily, but all died by a few months into the following spring. Probably grower error (:
     
    LoverOfMaples likes this.
  16. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    3,111
    Likes Received:
    2,493
    Location:
    Normandie, France
    Actually Kyle, probably not your fault. They are miserable to grow in my experience, especially in the beginning. I had a batch a few years ago that I grew up to 1 and 2 liter size, gave away most of them, and they all died: here, and everywhere else, maybe 15 seedlings!

    These seedlings were from the garden here, off of one of the hardy forms from Rogow. Some of the seed is always hardy, but this particular one was grafted and named at Esveld, and I bought it as a hoot a few years ago. It isn't as interesting as some of the other seedlings I've had with really big leathery leaves, but it seems nice enough.

    Some of the 2021 seedlings, like this one above, are pretty clearly hybrids.
     
    maf, LoverOfMaples and kgeezy20 like this.
  17. kgeezy20

    kgeezy20 Active Member Maple Society

    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    89
    Location:
    Tennessee, United States
    Good to know, E. I always wondered what exactly the deal was.
     
  18. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    3,076
    Likes Received:
    3,965
    Location:
    nr Orléans, France (E.U.)
    Three trays of various seeds from various sources. Some germinated, others didn't, like the 'Hana matoi' where a snail had decided it was a good place to lay eggs. I removed it and gave him another place to... accomplish its mission.

    semis_22-Div_220709a.jpg
     
    dicky5ash, maf, emery and 2 others like this.
  19. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    3,076
    Likes Received:
    3,965
    Location:
    nr Orléans, France (E.U.)
    Amazing how seedlings from an 'Atropurpureum dissectum' can be different. I lost two, the smaller ones, the weak ones. The others seem to be doing fine :

    Semis21-AtroDis_220711a.jpg Semis21-AtroDis_220711b.jpg
     
    emery, dicky5ash, maf and 1 other person like this.
  20. Herman vd

    Herman vd New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Vanderbijlpark south africa
    Hey there everyone....im brand new to the forum and this is my first post
    I really enjoyed reading youre coments and photos regarding youre seedlings
    This was my first year sprouting and growing japanese maple seedlings.
    All my named cultivars are fairly new and haven't start producing any seeds. Luckily my local nursery have 3 normal green palmatum mature trees and they was so kind as to let me harvest some seeds for free
    So i sprouted around 40 seeds mostly for future grafting projects and most of them where normal green leaved.... Alto this one was quite different and interesting right through the first growing season..... Below are the progression photos, also is very slow growing compared to his siblings
     

    Attached Files:

    maf and emery like this.
  21. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    3,076
    Likes Received:
    3,965
    Location:
    nr Orléans, France (E.U.)
    Welcome to the forum!

    Your seedlings are looking good. The one with red tones must be a hybrid: cross-pollination is frequent for Japanese maples and I suppose the nursery where you picked the seeds have other cultivars.

    Let us know about the evolution of your little trees...

    PS: perhaps you could add a more precise location in your profile, I think the temperatures around Bloemfontein can be negative in winter, whereas in Cape Town it's rarely below 10°C, if I can trust what I found via Google ;-) The members here could give you better advice then.
     
    Herman vd likes this.
  22. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    3,111
    Likes Received:
    2,493
    Location:
    Normandie, France
    Welcome @Herman vd , and thanks for showing us your seedlings! They look great.It will be interesting to see if the one with the short internodes continues along that path. I have mixed experience with such seedlings: some, when they get their feet under them, grow quite normally; a few are true dwarfs, I have a couple in the garden that at more than 10 years old are still under 30cm. I hope this is what you end up with, they're fun plants.

    Here are some pictures of an A. velutinum (Velvet or Persian Maple) seedling that has a viral variegation. (I know some people really hate this type of variegation, and I'm a little mixed on it, but it is what it is). Out of the batch of seedlings there were 2 of these, one very pink and even smaller and weaker, which died. The other 10 or so are growing very rapidly, with large leaves, as is their reputation, though there are a couple of clear pseudoplatanus hybrids in the batch.

    Anyway we'll see whether this survives and stays variegated/reticulated in the long term, but maybe it will make an unusual bushy dwarf velutinum.

    20220712_211531_v1.jpg 20220712_211559_v1.jpg 20220712_211641_v1.jpg
     
    Herman vd and maf like this.
  23. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    3,076
    Likes Received:
    3,965
    Location:
    nr Orléans, France (E.U.)
    I hope it will, it looks really great...
     
  24. kgeezy20

    kgeezy20 Active Member Maple Society

    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    89
    Location:
    Tennessee, United States
    That’s really interesting Emery. How do you determine whether the variegation/reticulation is viral as opposed to genetic? I’ve always wondered.
     
  25. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    3,076
    Likes Received:
    3,965
    Location:
    nr Orléans, France (E.U.)
    It must be Doctor Strangelove's secret, don't expect him to reveal it. Huh huh...

    Seriously, I've often aked myself the same question. For instance, there are some weird, contorted Fagus sylvatica (Beech) in a very limited area in France, but there are a few in Germany too. No one is really sure where the unusual aspect comes from, some suggested radiations from a meteorite, etc.

    But for maples, it's probably a bit like "witches brooms" that are reproduced by grafting and are from viral origin.

    See : Faux de Verzy - Wikipedia

    "The hypothesis of a pathogen which may have induced a mutation is compatible with the fact that there are some dwarf oak trees Quercus petraea and some dwarf chest nut trees Castanea sativa or sweet chestnut."
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2022
    maf likes this.

Share This Page