Hi Everyone, This is my first post to this forum. I have read extensively over the past several days quite a number of threads in this area hoping to find answers to a number of questions I have regarding a couple of Japanese Maples, but, alas, I have not found my answers. I have this Japanese Maple growing in my garden in central Ohio from a seedling that started under what I thought was an Acer palmatum dissectum Red Dragon (but I am not sure of this name). I have cultivated this seedling for quite a number of years now in fairly heavy shade of a mature oak & beech forest. It is a threadlike leaf dissectum type. I wonder if anyone can help me in either identifying it, or help me in understanding the variability of seedlings like this that might start up. Please disregard the temporary name I have attached to these files if they show up, as it is a name I made up to describe it in my own files. I have pictures attached that show it in summer (very poor picture). It has a medium green leaf with some prominent veining and a slight reddish tinge in the leaves in the summer. I have some better pictures of it from Nov 10 of 2008 . It has spectacular orange leaves in the fall, fairly early compared to the other Japanese Maples I grow. It now is about 18 to 20" high and about 36" across. Any ideas or thoughts from some of you with much more insight that I have as to this Japanese Maple? THANKS! Jerry
Ron, Yes, I understand that it will not have a cultivar name since it was a chance seedling. I guess the question I was really asking is do you simply call anything that comes up from seed that has a highly dissected leaf like this "Acer palmatum dissectum" without reference to anything else? Is this yet another "run-of-the-mill" seedling? I don't have experience in raising Acer palmatums from seed, so am not aware of how variable seedlings are that are obtained in this way. The plant from which the seed came (below) does not have as highly as dissected a leaf, and it is always red during the summer -- brilliant red in fall, not orange as is the case of this seedling. So, is this simply a "normal" occurrence I might see in all seedlings from this plant? Thanks, Jerry
Hi Jerry, Welcome to the forum. Many of us grow maples from seeds, it is a lot of fun since they are all slightly different. In my case if it is a seed I have picked up from a named cultivar, then I trace it just as a seedling from that specific cultivar, just as a piece of information since the seedling is always different from the plant the seed was picked up from. If it is a seedling I pick up from the ground, then I only identify it either as palmatum, amoenum or matsumurae (i.e.: dissectum-like). Hope it helps Gomero
Nice looking tree, Jerry. Like Gomero said, your tree as a chance seedling is somewhat different from its parents like you are from your parents witness that your seedling has an orange Fall color and is more finely dissected. Since Japanese maple trees are not male or female like we humans are, many seeds are pollenized by other seeds on that same tree ("selfing") or pollenized by male pollen carried in by wind or insect so that the seedling generally resembles the mother tree which is why Gomero and I and other seedling growers keep track of the matrilineal seed line. Sexual reproduction by seed is how we get new differences in trees; named cultivars are genetically identical to their parent because they were grafted not grown from seed from which everything new comes. Your seedling is not run-of-the-mill because it is a unique genetic venture just like you and I are since we came from seed. Cherish your tree (it is a beauty) and don't worry about a name unless you choose to give it a personal name. Just love it and grow with it like I do with my trees. Welcome to the forum. Growing seedlings can become a wonderful hobby.
"Is this yet another "run-of-the-mill" seedling?" No, it isn't from what I can see of it. Keep in mind that several chance seedlings have later been named. Some people have not waited to name the new plant but instead gave it a new name when the seedling plant did not look the same as the parent that yielded the seed. "So, is this simply a "normal" occurrence I might see in all seedlings from this plant?" This we do not know until you germinate seed from this Maple and find out for yourself what colors and forms those seedlings have over time. The good thing is that you can better prove whether your chance seedling deserves to have cultivar status or not. In the case of a red dissectum that not many people have ever heard of, let alone seen before, the Red Head Maple was also a chance seedling from a Crimson Queen. The seedling plant did not share some of the same coloring during the growing season as its parent did. As a matter of fact Red Head was a different red form altogether by being a nigrum form red instead of being an atropurpureum form red like its parent. When grafted onto green seedling rootstock Red Head remained a nigrum form. If more than 50% of the seedlings stay nigrum rather than being reduced to later becoming atropurpureum then you may have yourself a potentially new cultivar, to me a new form, in the wings. I have a red seedling that came from our Otto’s dissectum that is red, stays red all year. The leaves look like a red counterpart to Ao shidare at this time. All I can do is monitor this seedling to see if it continues to show the same leaf attributes as the old and possibly extinct now Aka shidare did but at this point in time it is a dead wringer to the old Maple in leaf shape but not in seasonal color. For what its worth, the Duncan & Davies nursery Red Dragon introduction is an atropurpureum form red. I am not saying this Maple is a nigrum form yet but it could be. More time and more photos during the growing season may better tell which form red this nice Maple is. Jim
Thanks for the welcome and encouragement everyone. You've all been very helpful and I appreciate it. I'll take some better pictures of this Japanese Maple this next year when it leafs out and post it for you all to see. By the way, the orange coloration in the fall has been extremely consistent regardless of the weather during the past 4 or 5 years. A bonus, considering how other trees in my forest vary from year to year. I'm also going to monitor the growth habit of this Japanese Maple to see if it continues to be short and wide-spreading. I have not done anything to train this seedling at all, it is simply the way it has matured all on its own. I'm a bit surprised at how low to the ground it has stayed compared to how wide it has spread. Curiosity got the better of me and I went out in the cold (it went down to 10 degrees Fahrenheit last night) and took some measurements of it and another picture to show the branching structure (attached). It is larger than I thought. 28 inches tall (tip of highest branch) x 72 inches wide (left to right) and 48" deep (front to back) looking at the picture. It has 2 main branches that are connected to a single trunk at ground level. Again, thanks everyone.
Beautiful tree - kind of inspires me to leave one of my red dragons alone (I have two red dragon babies both staking for height and suffering my early attempts at "shaping")!
Well everyone, it's been a couple of years since I posted my original photos of this Japanese Maple. I've decided to simply name it 'Orange Flame' as it represents the overall appearance in the fall. But, to give you an idea of what it looks like in the spring of 2012 (April 11), here are a couple of shots of it. I moved it this past fall to a spot about 3 foot further back from where it had been growing to overhang my small pond and to get relief from it overgrowing my path through this bed. It didn't miss a beat in growing! We have had an extremely warm early spring (March was about 8 degrees above normal on average!), which is why so many things are out early right now (almost a month early). Temps now are back down to more normal readings, or a bit colder than normal. I've provided the following photos in order: 1. General shot of the bed it is in to give a view of its overall coloration at this time of year in the landscape. In the picture to the right is Acer palmatum 'Fireglow' I planted late last summer (a great plant!). You can see the Acer palmatum 'Orange Flame' has an overall orange-red coloration. (yellow flower is Kerria japonica 'Picta' in the background along with the bright dark pink of Cercis canadensis 'Appalachian Red' and an unknown bright light pink of an Azalea on the left) 2. Shot of the overall plant, again with a bit of Acer palmatum 'Fireglow' to give a reference color. The Acer palmatum 'Orange Flame' is now 81" across in one direction, 70" across in the narrow direction, and stands 36" high from ground to top-most leaves. It has been growing rapidly in the past couple of years after a really slow start. 3. Detailed look at the newly emerging leaves. Pretty nice. I took a few cuttings this past winter and started a couple of grafts of this plant. Out of 6 grafts I tried, 3 succeeded and are growing well. I'll post a photo of the leaves in the middle of summer if I can remember. ENJOY! Jerry
Beautiful!!! All computer screens translate color differently of course, but even so, it looks like a very unique color. And now the collector in me has to speak - I certainly would be interested in one of those successful grafts. :D
Yes Jerry, It is a good idea to let other people in different climate zones try out your plant to see how it performs. often plants look or behave quite differently in different areas. I would be happy to try it here in the South. :)
Yes, monitors do make a difference in color when your looking at pictures made by others. That's one of the reasons I put the Fireglow and Kerria in the background to give a sense of reference for color. And, as we all know, maples color differently in different growing conditions, and over time. The very reason I made grafts has been to get starts of this into the hands of some others; especially someone who also does grafts. I just did these grafts January 28th, and I'd like to grow them out for a few months to assure they continue to grow well. I've given one of the starts to the Dawes Arboretum in Newark, OH near by me. I'll decide a bit later what to do with the other 2, and then I'll make a few more this coming winter. Thanks for the offers, I'll definitely keep you in mind.
