Saving a Acer palmatum Ukigumo (and reversions in general)

Discussion in 'Maples' started by marzette, Jun 12, 2008.

  1. marzette

    marzette Member

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    Hi. Last year we purchased a 1.5" specimen and planted it in a bad spot, it got severely scorched (even in SE Alaska!). We have moved the Ukigumo to a shady, moist, protected area and it is releafing. When we purchased the tree it was covered in "truly" floating white, slightly pink clouds.

    My concern is that while we have a few cloud-like leaves emerging, there is what seems to be a reversion branch of primarily green leaves. Should I leave this one branch in hopes of helping to regenerate the tree OR remove branch and or individual leaves in hopes of redirecting energy into the cloud-like leaves?

    The tree was badly scorched and perhaps winter-burned so I did have to cut back many branches thus my concern for retaining as many leaves as possible.

    Thank you! Marzette
     
  2. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    if you are sure the leaves are a reversion - and I say this because Ukigumo oftentimes
    will have leaves with no variegation which could look like a reversion - then I would
    remove all the leaves on that branch but keep the branch and see what re-leaves.
    Good luck.
     
  3. marzette

    marzette Member

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    Thanks for the prompt reply. Your advice has been my thinking. Please correct me but my intrepretation of a reversion are leaves/leaf that is distinctly different from majority of others but probably more indicative is the pace in which the reversion-leaves grow vs the varietal leaves. In the case of our Ukigumo, the "reverted" leaves bolted ahead, we've one fully covered branch and then multiple cloud-like leaves emerging.

    marzette
     
  4. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    Reversion is the return to the parent genetics of the tree as you know. Your inter-
    pretation would agree with my basic working assumption, but I have 3 good size
    Ukigumos, 2 of which never revert and 1 (the largest by far) which can some years
    have almost no variegation and this year has its basic floating cloud variegation but
    recently has put out reddish colored leaves that look completely different. Those
    different leaves are NOT reversions but somewhat normal for that 1 Ukigumo and not
    for the other 2. Ukigumo is tricky but my variegates do seem to get more reversions
    than non-variegates. I have a reversion this year on my Beni fushigi which I am
    studying - the reverted leaves are much larger than the normal crinkly ones. I think
    you are on top of this matter and if you believe the leaves are reversions than pluck
    those off and see what the tree re-leafs. Without seeing a picture, this is the best
    I can guess but you seem on top of the matter. Good luck. Hope the tree recovers
    a full branch structure over time.
     
  5. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Since the tree is already on a set of emergency buds from the first scorch, I'd not pull off any more leaves and stress it further, personally. My sense is that the new flush will often not show the variegation, but that doesn't mean reversion; hopefully next year leaves along this branch will show the regular coloring.

    If they really are reversions, you can always take them off next spring. It's unlikely that the whole tree will revert between now and then.

    This said Katsura certainly has more experience with Ukigumo than I do!

    Good luck, indeed. Sounds like you've got the tree under control, though.


    -E
     
  6. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I would be inclined to leave the plant as it is and see how it develops next year
    These trees seldom 'revert' as I understand the term
     
  7. xman

    xman Active Member

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    Hi,

    I still do not know what influences the variegation in ukigumos. I have 3 grafts that are in their 2nd year that do not show any variegation. One of these is completely green and the other 2 show a few specks on some leaves. These are grafts from this tree that shows a decent amount of variegation, and were grafted from branches that had a lot variegation.

    http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=15146&highlight=ukigumo

    I also have 2 others that are 3 years old, they were almost completely white when I got them from NY last fall. But this year when they leafed out they are green with tiny specks of white. I have all of them in shade, and they only get filtered sunlight. I am not sure if they need more sun to get more variegation.

    xman
     
  8. silver_creek

    silver_creek Active Member

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    In my experience, Ukigumo often has non variegated leaves on vigorous branches, especially on young trees that are fertilized. If the branch is left, the second year that branch will have mostly normal leaves. The older a tree gets, the less of this is seen, in most cases. I've also seen this in Beni Schischihenge. But I don't think it is a true reversion, as it will return to variegation as the wood matures.
     
  9. xman

    xman Active Member

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    What about the sun exposure? Some sun(within limits) more variegation? or is it more shade more variegation?
    or is the answer "the right mix of both" :)

    xman
     
  10. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Location:
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    "In my experience, Ukigumo often has non variegated
    leaves on vigorous branches, especially on young trees
    that are fertilized
    ."

    Can happen on non vigorous branches as well. Take
    an old form five gallon Orido nishiki offered from a
    retail nursery that is covered with variegated leaves,
    bring it home and place it in a fifteen gallon with new
    soil and watch what happens to amount of variegation
    next Spring.

    There are two plants being sold under the Ukigumo
    name but the more prevalent plant seen in Oregon
    is Floating Clouds. Floating Clouds differs in how
    the variegation appears on the leaves as the leaves
    seldom are covered with the variegation. We never
    see white undertone on Floating Clouds but we do
    see white undertone on Ukigumo. We see mainly
    white with a hint of pink overtone on Floating Clouds
    instead and by Summer, where we are we, will see no
    variegated leaves at all left on the plant until the late
    Summer, early Fall new growth. Ukigumo in contrast
    can keep producing variegated leaves on non vigorous
    shoots year round in many areas. The latter changes
    once we give the Ukigumo some added nutrition or
    new soil. We want to see vigorous growth from
    Floating Clouds to sustain the amount of variegation
    we will see next year but we do not want vigorous
    growth from Ukigumo as the leaves are more likely
    to return to wild type - all green with no variegation,
    can remain non variegated and these leaves should be
    plucked off from the rest of the tree when we see them.

    I've seen it in areas of Oregon that the fine sprinkling
    of dust on the Floating Clouds leaves can easily be
    confused for Powdery Mildew. In some areas it is
    thought to be that the Maples that show the allover
    dusting do have Powdery Mildew. An easy test is
    to rub our fingers over the leaves and see what
    residue is left on our fingers.

    True form Ukigumo seldom reverts by producing
    an abundance of vigorous growth that has leaves
    different in shape and different in color than the
    rest of the plant. Whereas a Floating Clouds
    can revert on us by producing vigorous new shoots
    that may have leaves much larger in size than the
    normal leaves are and may have leaves devoid of
    variegation or can have both leaves that are larger
    in size that have some variegation to them but the
    dusting is not the variegation in those leaves. An
    added note is that some people felt the dusting
    is a Fu but the variegation that we will see from
    vigorous variegated growth from Floating Clouds
    is not a Fu at all. The main difference is that
    Ukigumo is a more stable plant than Floating
    Clouds is or has been. I've had them both
    and feel that the European form of Ukigumo
    is the better overall plant to have than the
    Japanese form Floating Clouds will be for
    most people. Then again I like them both
    for different reasons but for warm to hot
    and dry climates Floating Clouds is the
    better plant for us in a landscape. For
    cooler areas that do not have salt issues
    in their soil and have some wind protection
    Ukigumo will be the more dependable plant
    with its year in and year out variegation.
    Another note is that the variegated vigorous
    growth from Floating Clouds has been grafted
    which can give us the short term impression
    our Maple is a Ukigumo when we first get it
    but once we have had the Maple a while we
    should and usually do see that the Maple later
    becomes more like Floating Clouds later on
    than Ukigumo does over time. High white
    undertone = Ukigumo. Dusting on a green
    leaf = Floating Clouds.

    Jim

    Forgot to mention that Floating Clouds is a
    selected form of the Ukigumo from Japan.
     
  11. kaspian

    kaspian Active Member 10 Years

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    Mr. Shep, thank you for taking the time to compose that amazingly knowledgeable and interesting post.
     

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