Rootstock for Sango Kaku

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Nicola, Jan 15, 2008.

  1. Nicola

    Nicola Member

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    I've successfully grown maples from seed with interesting and varied results, but one of my New Year's resolutions this year is to try and have learn the art of grafting. I have a fine Sango Kaku specimen in my garden, but would like to know in the case of this cultivar which is renowned for its bark colour, does the rootstock matter and if so, which is most suitable?

    Nicola
     
  2. alex66

    alex66 Rising Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    try with acer palmatum subsp. palmatum ,is the mother of every root stock!!!!
     
  3. Nicola

    Nicola Member

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    Thanks Alex,

    Would the outcome be the same using Acer Palmatum Atropurpureum as the rootstock?

    Nicola
     
  4. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I see no reason why not :)
     
  5. alex66

    alex66 Rising Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    yes i agree with Whis4ey ,if is grow by seed....
     
  6. Nicola

    Nicola Member

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    I think I get it now. Last silly question for now (honest!)Any seeds harvested from any palmatum cultivar, will only ever produce plants which should be rightly called acer palmatum (with or without the atropurpureum - depending on leaf colour) and whilst these seeds can produce many and varied beautiful trees in their own right, they are generally grown to be the foundation (ie rootstock) of the many palmatum cultivars. Am I right, or am I still not getting it??

    Nicola
     
  7. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Nicola .... that is as near as dammit :)
    However .. there seems to be a practice prevalent in the States to offer for sale plants sold as a named cultivar when, in reality, they are a seedling from that cultivar. In reality they should be sold as 'seedling from ....'
    This is the cause of so many variations in leaf shape and colour etc seen on these forums.
    If your plant is grafted it is most probably the cultivar. If it is not it is probably a seedling (be aware that some plants are high grafted and the graft may be difficult to pick out)
    As an example ... I have just been looking at the autumn colour of Butterfly (I think from Alex) which he shows as a fairly deep red. Vertrees shows it as a pinkish colour. My own tree (admittedly for the first time) last year was a bright yellow.
    How can one be dogmatic about anything when you can have such variation?
    Climate, soil, situation, etc etc play a major part in leaf colour at every time of the year
     
  8. Nicola

    Nicola Member

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    Whis4ey,
    Your response has raised another question for me. If all cultivars are grafted onto palmatum rootstocks then how do we get new cultivars, as grafting in this way will only ever be replicating something which already exists?

    Thanks,

    Nicola
     
  9. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    New cultivars appear as 'sports' to seedlings
    Or ... indeed... are bred as such
     
  10. alex66

    alex66 Rising Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    the new cultivar are avaible by selections of species,and by ossservations of natural genetic mutations,for ex. if you have one palmatum in nursery with "white fungi"similar to the variegations ;if you cut one branch with a fungi and rooot stock to palmatum in good health you have a palmatum variegation ,if the root stock survivor....this is one reason of whis4ki reply,my butterfly is red in winter ,butterfly of Whis4ki is yellow= natural genetic mutations.....
     
  11. Scion Swapper

    Scion Swapper Active Member 10 Years

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    Nicola,

    Very important questions you've brought up. As for how new cultivars are discovered when many nurseries are strictly cloning existing cultivars, here are a few venues:

    1. Branch sports, witches brooms, and mutations. Nurserymen, collectors, and plant enthusiasts have found a variety of mutations on existing cultivars or seedlings, which have led to new cultivars. Most of your dwarf brooms with truncated center leaf lobes fall into this catagory. Some of the variegated cultivars where branch sports on existing cultivars.

    2. Randomly found seedlings. Despite the fact that many Acer palmatums found in garden centers are grafted named cultivars, there is still a big demand for the actual species Acer palmatum and the atropurpureum variant seedling Acer palmatum var. Atropurpureum. Because of this, many nurseries grow both green and red seedlings, to be sold as such, seedlings - not cultivars. Great variability can be seen in the habit, growth rate, leaf shape, etc. in these seedlings. Occasionally, when one seedling shows great promise, it can and should be evaluated for several years or more to consider if it might be worth introduction and registration for cultivar introduction. Occasionally one of those seedlings turns out to be worthy of cultivar introduction.

    3. Lastely, hybridization is becoming rather important, where researchers/nurseryfolks/hobbyists intentionally cross pollenate two cultivars/types/species in an attempt to find a new cultivar with intermediate traits. I know that several nurseries are actively looking for red versions of 'Mikawa Yatsubusa', 'Shi shi gashira', 'Okushimo, 'Seiryu', etc. I would love to find a golden cutleaf hybrid between Acer palmatum dissectum and Acer shirasawanum 'Aureum' -- haven't found it yet.

    So a quick answer to your question, not everyone has given up on trying to find new varieties - and strictly gone with grafted clones. However since there are already 600+ cultivars of JMs, those who are considering the merits of new strains should, in my opinion, take YEARS of evaluation (both self evaluations/notes and sharing information with other nurseries/Maple Society members/collectors) before throwing a name to something neat that shows up in seedlings or branch sports. After all, do we really need another nicely dissected green cutleaf with mounding habit and nice yellow fall color???? No. There are already at least 30 named varieties of green dissectums to fill that role (also, seedlings from seed collected from isolated cutleafs comes up nearly 90% cutleaf, so they are not really rare).

    Scion Swapper
     
  12. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    hehehe
    I think my answer was quicker Scion, but yours was certainly more informative
    Thanks for your time in putting it together
     

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