Replacement red for shade

Discussion in 'Maples' started by winterhaven, Jul 15, 2013.

  1. winterhaven

    winterhaven Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I have a hole in my "Acer Alley" where my Brandt's Dwarf passed away. I'm choosing a replacement red/purple to go between Ukigumo and Aureum (palmatum). So, I'd like a tree that doesn't get too big. Further, the purchase will need to be from a local nursery that delivers because we've sold our truck (sorry, Charlie). That means my selection will be limited. Currently, they have Bloodgood, Oshio beni, Fireglow, Moonfire, and Red Burgundy Lace (RBL).

    I'm most interested in the last two because I have 2 Oshio benis, 2 Fireglows, and because I believe Moonfire will stay smaller than Bloodgood. I've reviewed this thread for ideas: http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=67451. Moonfire is referenced; RBL is not. However, the Moonfire is rather spendy for its size. The RBL is slightly less expensive and the Bloodgoods are significantly less expensive. I'm attracted to the leaf shape of the RBL, but I am concerned that I'll be disappointed in the color I could get from it in this shady spot. Especially since this thread: http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=10203 mentions this cultivar is sensitive to sun/shade exposure.

    So, I'm choosing between Moonfire, RBL, and rolling the dice about what gets stocked next spring.

    Advice?

    I'm particularly interested in hearing about superior characteristics that might justify the price difference between Moonfire and Bloodgood (I do understand Moonfire is less prevalent). Secondly, I'm very interested to hear about color from those who have grown RBL in shade.
     
  2. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Many are faded by now, I bought a 'Ruth's Red' at Christianson's because it was still quite dark and was a nice specimen in a cute little wood box for only about 65 dollars. I have no trouble picking it up, and was able to "fit" it into a 2011 Honda Fit.
     
  3. winterhaven

    winterhaven Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Unfortunately, this spot is between two already substantial trees. The Ukigumo is about 14' tall and the Aureum is about 11'. So, I'm looking for something at least 7'.

    Umm. Just reviewed the RBL thread again and saw the post showing 20-25 foot tall trees. That eliminates RBL. And Moonfire's review indicates it gets that big, too. Scratch that idea.

    What to do? I want my Brandt's Dwarf back. :(
     
  4. JT1

    JT1 Contributor 10 Years

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    This is probably no help with your current dilemma, but if you could find a ‘Red Filigree’. It is super slow growing and always has a great color that does not fade over summer (even in a shaded area). We don’t own a truck and have gone through extensive lengths to get things home. The last time we rented a U-Haul delivery van and it was very affordable, when you compare the cost that some nurseries charge to deliver. It’s also nice, because you do not have to worry about wind damage. Just tie it and lay it on its side, if you have to in order to get it in.
     
  5. winterhaven

    winterhaven Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I think I have to brainstorm for the ideal tree for the location, then find the tree, and then figure out how to get it where I want it.

    The RF is a nice suggestion. I have one with a nice, low graft that gets little sun and it is indeed holding its purple color. Love it. But it's only four feet tall. Well, maybe only 3.5. There is one at the local nursery, but it's roughly the same size.

    I'm revisiting Moonfire because I'm seeing repeated citing of 20 year old trees at approximately 15 feet. The one I'm looking at is about 7 feet and if it grows slowly then I should be able to keep it in line with judicious pruning starting in about five years.

    Next on my agenda to investigate regarding color in shade and mature height are Rhode Island Red, Twombley's Red Sentinel, and Lozita.
     
  6. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Cause of death? Any risk that if you plant a new maple in the same place, it may succumb to the same cause?
     
  7. maplesandpaws

    maplesandpaws Active Member

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    Have you considered Nuresagi? Granted they were small 2 year grafts, but I had both Nuresagi and Moonfire and while both are nice, if I had to pick one, I would definitely go with Nuresagi (ended up selling the Moonfire to a local bonsai club member). It has a more refined, elegant appearance, the leaves are nicer (to me), has a better growth habit from what I've read and will stay smaller than Moonfire. Color is very similar, that beautiful deep purple-black. I had both of mine in a fair amount of sun (so far, my new 2g, 4ft tall Nuresagi has nicely withstood about 3-4 hours of midday sun with daily temps in the upper 90s and low 100s, with varying sun both before and after - and that's still in a pot, not in the ground; impressive for Kansas) so I can't speak to how well it will hold color in shade; at the very least it will be darker than the two you would be planting it between.

    This one is definitely harder to find than Moonfire, though I don't know why - it's such a pretty tree. I know Lucile at Whitman Farms typically carries it, I think Greer might, and there are some other places too... Good luck with whatever you choose!
     
  8. maplesandpaws

    maplesandpaws Active Member

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    Found some pictures of my little grafts from last year (damn grasshoppers sheared off my Nuresagi), you can see the difference in the leaf habit. It's not a very good picture, but this is the Nuresagi I got from Whitman Farms this spring; love it so much!!!
     

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  9. JT1

    JT1 Contributor 10 Years

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    Twombley's Red Sentinel is a dead end. I got one that is about 6' tall and surprisingly narrow. It fits the need that I got it for (tall and narrow), but it does not hold it's color well at all. It's kind of a weird green with small hints of purple and hints of dull orange.

    I do have 'skeeter's broom' and it holds it's color very well through out summer in a shaded corner of my yard. It's very easy to grow and I never have any problems with it. It almost takes care of itself and takes weather extremes in stride.
     
  10. winterhaven

    winterhaven Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    TY all. I'll think about what's written.
     
  11. DougieMapleSeed

    DougieMapleSeed Active Member

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    Check out "Emperor I"
     
  12. rufretic

    rufretic Active Member

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    My Burgundy Lace is by far the darkest purple of all mine right now, not a hint of green. Both my Blood goods are pretty green. My Oshio Beni has a nice red color but it gets more sun. My Emperor 1 in the shade is almost completely green. My Fireglows are both still a nice purple but they get much more sun. I don't have Moon fire.
    This is my first year with Burgundy Lace so I'm not sure what it will do in the future but it's been planted in almost full shade since early spring and has no sign of greening out. It's planted under a huge oak and gets no direct sun. I know you think it will get too large but one thing to think about is that it will not likely get the size of those larger trees you mention for many years if planted in shade, if ever. I would think it would need ideal growing conditions to get that large. The ones I've seen look more like a large bush. I think it's actually the smallest on your list of choices.
     
  13. copperbeech

    copperbeech Active Member 10 Years

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    I too would like to know as I have a "Brandt's Dwarf" that went in the ground earlier this summer.
     

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