I guess the trouble with research is that sometimes you uncover unwelcome news! We have a newish (~4-5years) garden and one of the nicest plants (viewed over a glass of wine from a chair on the deck) is a Norway Maple, about 18' tall and 5" trunk diameter. Last year it really seemed to "find itself" and filled out and up nicely, as planned. Now I find from several sources that this evil lurking beast is probably about to spew thousands of fertile seeds and undermine my house (25' away)... ARRRGH. The chainsaw is the obvious solution, but "she-who-must-be-obeyed" makes a more subtle and devious approach a wiser option. Can anyone suggest a similar (maple?) plant that I can start as a replacement? I'm looking for a medium to large fast starting shade tree and have lots of room. Ralph
A severe problem is present mostly in other parts of North America. There IS a park in Seattle that has an appalling infestation but it is a moist and shady ravine, otherwise what I have seen myself* so far is seedlings being limited mostly to irrigated gardens. You won't necessarily have it run wild there. Have any seedlings been coming up so far? Otherwise this is a large shady tree that does not lend itself to underplanting, and is also apt to become infested with aphids during summer and drip in the dry summers of the Seattle area. Possibly this is not a feature in your part of the region. Large-growing maples generally are not as suitable for typical home garden situations as large-growing oaks, or even small-growing maples (such as the highly popular Japanese maple, with its hundreds of cultivars). *Jacobson, WILD PLANTS OF GREATER SEATTLE describes the tree as "weedily naturalized"
Ron No seedlings so far. I am concerned about the reference to root invasiveness; it's about 25' from the house, but also 25' from the septic tank and pump station. The whole area is pretty well saturated (but not in"standing" water) in the winter but during the summer the most reliable water source for it would be directly away from both house and plumbing. Any comments about this concern? Ralph
If the idea is that the septic is supposed to be located well away from trees (and their roots) then maybe the spot doesn't suit any kind of large tree. They pretty much all grow large root systems, often more extensive than their branches.
Thanks Ron. The actual septic field is a good distance away; these are just the tank and pump chambers and are not (in good working condition) supposed to provide any nutrient encouragement to plants. Ralph
Most modern system are using PVC pipes which are put together with glue and yes the roots can work there way into the drain opening and shut them down. Anyways the Norway maple will bust up a side walk with it's big surface roots. The roots will go to water as any maple will , so think of how large the canopy will be in your life time, think of this as your diameter and add the radius to the diameter this will = something and if that something is in your drain field when you are 75 then you are screwed. A fruitless Sweet gum may be OK or a Tulip popular or a what do they call the old gum trees in California a Liquid Amber yea that was it. I hate it because I can't split it with an ax. The name of a sweet gum in Virginia is (edited profanity) you just cut it down and walk away. I hate both of those trees but they get frigen big quick. Acer freemanii may be OK, as in Autumn Glory, or an Autumn Blaze I just bought one 8 M tall 90-95 mm caliber for edit but it cost 150 to have it dropped in the hole. Did I see that you were in BC, if so you have the best nurseries so have a good time looking for what type of bark you would like to look at for the rest of year.
Ralph, the Norway maple has a bum rap. It's a really attractive tree in spring flower, and a good shade tree in summer. The size will depend on which cultivar you have. If it's the species, yes it will get big, and if that's a problem you might want to consider changing it. Norway maple can certainly cause paving damage, but so long as the paving is 10 or so feet away I think you'll be alright. They are used (too) extensively here in parking lots and service areas, so the root problems are presumably controllable. Liquidambar styraciflua (sweet gum) is a beautiful but upright tree. There are many varieties selected for interesting leaf shape and/or fall color. The fruits are said to be a problem but none of my 3 have produced any. Liriodendron (or Tulip/yellow poplar) gets very big, if size is an issue with the Norway maple, this might not be the best. In the maple world I think a smaller Freeman's maple or red maple are good choices. (These are smaller than most Norway, but might have root and pavement problems too if that is an issue.) The red maple in particular has really nice spring flowers, is a good shade tree, and good fall color even in your climate (usually). Another choice might be A. truncatum, the Purpleblow maple, or you could spring for a big Paperbark maple which would make SWMBO happy so long as you could keep the price secret. :) -E
Emery is completely right on, I just finished a fairly in depth study of street trees which took into account pipes and broken pavement. I have nothing to add but to second his more appropriate positive reply. I can only add that the Tulip/yellow poplar roots are not very hairy. The popular roots are quick growing but very soft and as a matter of my fact they are the softest of any tree.
Mmmm... Paperbark. That's one that I'd almost forgotten about. Plants make such a lovely Christmas present for a spouse 'cause you get to give it away and keep it at the same time. Gotta go! Hopefully the wind and sleet will have blown over by the time I get back from the nursery. Thanks to all for your comments and have a merry Christmas. Ralph
Paperbark maple is a small maple so you would be getting away from the problems of large maples same as if any other small maple were chosen. The advantage of that one specifically is the unique bark. Representations of Freeman and red maple cultivars not specifically selected for dwarfness as smaller-growing than seedlings highly suspect and probably based nearly all of the time on them being selected too recently for large specimens to be well-known. Where frequently planted older cultivars are present large individuals have been recorded. For instance, Mountain View Cemetary, Tacoma, WA had an Acer x freemanii 'Armstrong' 71' tall by 1990. Two years later an A. rubrum 'Columnare' at the Washington Park Arboretum, Seattle had reached 69'. I don't get the impression A. platanoides is a significantly bigger tree than A. rubrum, red maples in cultivation here seem to be faster growing trees and huge canopies are claimed for red maples in Michigan - although these last reports are regarded with skepticism. (Web site of Eastern Native Tree Society (ENTS) may have accepted measurements of very big red maples still surviving in eastern forests, I don't remember looking there for that particular species). Here a red maple in Wright Park, Tacoma, WA was 92' tall during 1988; the same year a Norway maple growing in Pioneer Park, Walla Walla, WA was measured as 97' tall. Above measurements and locations from Van Pelt, CHAMPION TREES OF WASHINGTON STATE (1996 UW Press). More recent (2006) local records can be found in Jacobson, TREES OF SEATTLE - SECOND EDITION.
