Raw Humate (Humic Acid/Fulvic Acid)

Discussion in 'HortForum' started by ichoudhury, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. ichoudhury

    ichoudhury Member

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    I ran into this Ebay seller who sells Raw Humate by various size bags. Since I am always looking for a way to improve plant growth, I broke down and purchased some from him :) -> Yes, I do have an Ebay Addiction!

    Anyway, so this is what they say about the product ...



    So I finally got the product and to me, they look like crushed Charcoal. But what do I know, I am no expert. They didn't have much instruction, so first few days I mixed it up in a watering can and applied to my plants and Trees, and then I have also been mixing up in different places to see a year or two from now that area converted any of those "Georgia Clay" into Humus :-D :-D .. Nah, not holding my breath.

    Do you have any experience ? If you do, I like to know how you apply them?
     
  2. paion

    paion Active Member 10 Years

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    I bought this once out of curiosity, think the label said to use it as a soak for seeds, or to spread 10g per square meter as a soil conditioner. Didn't use any scientific approach so didn't really notice any difference, but I'm sure it didn't hurt.
     
  3. mandarin

    mandarin Active Member 10 Years

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    Humate? I my world that is the salts of humic acid. I the cited text it seems to mean something else.
    When peat ages it is slowly transformed into more carbon-rich matter such as brown coal, a.k.a. lignite, and that is what I suspect that this "humate" is. If the age given is correct it would support my hypothesis.
    Why that should improve growth is beyond me. Such old organic matter has a very, very low nutritional value. There might be some acidity left in it, but something younger (peat for example) would provide far more acids (and I suspect it would be cheaper too). I guess they did not give any references to scientific articles about the benefits?

    The paper linked to by paion does not (ok, I did not read very carefully) reveal how the "potassium humate" was produced - a surprisingly severe error unless it it totally obvious to scientist who work in the same field. There are other odd things about that article - the pH of the humate solutions was not given, despite that potassium humate must give a quite alkaline solution. And what do they mean with 40 ml K-humate per kg seed? Humates are solid substances and are measured in grams, not millilitres. It must, however, be the potassium salt of humic acid, and humic acid is usually extracted from e.g. soil or old leaves, not lignite.

    I'm afraid I don't believe much in either of the cited sources, until they come up with something better ...

    I might add that humic and fulvid acid is the brown stuff in brooks and lakes that receives water from forested areas, it is formed quite fast (days - months) and does certainly not need to be mined from deposits millions of years old.
     
  4. paion

    paion Active Member 10 Years

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    There's a lot of research (or "research") like this regarding "humates", especially from the former Sovjet block, but have to admit that I linked to the first article that popped up in Google without giving it much of a read... The effects are usually explained by chelation and ion exchange, so it would make some sense for them to improve seedling growth and survival, at least in inorganic media and mineral soils.

    Is it hyped? Yes.
    Will it do any good? Maybe.
    Will it hurt to try? No.
     
  5. mandarin

    mandarin Active Member 10 Years

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    Except you wallet :-)
    But it will probably not hurt the plants.
     
  6. ichoudhury

    ichoudhury Member

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    :))

    I guess when its too good to be true, it is ;)


    On a different note, I have been busy making compost. Besides adding things like Azomite, Kelp, Worm Casting and such, I am adding few scoop of this thing :) ... I guess it wont hurt (Like you said). If I do get some giant crop, I guess I will give it a little credit :)
     
  7. Southland Organics

    Southland Organics Member

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    I know that I am real late to the party on this one but I wanted to throw in my 2 cents. Humic acids or humates are important to plants. We often (unfortunately) think of nitrogen as the only element that will produce visible results. The benefits of humates are only noticed when there are stressful conditions to the environment of the plant. Humic acids hold water and valuable nutrients in the soil.

    Humates also provide a better environment for beneficial microbes so that when plants emit exudates for soil microbes the relationship is reinforced.

    The best humate mixtures typically contain beneficial microbes and a high source of carbon.
     
  8. ichoudhury

    ichoudhury Member

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    Thank you for sharing. I have used the Raw Humate/Fulvic acid that I bought with my soil mix this season (along with Rockdust and other minerals), so not sure if it played a great role, but my garden seems to be doing well. I've also put some under some of my fruit trees and this year I had way more fruit (appeared to me) for Squirrel to eat. :(
     
  9. Tree Nut

    Tree Nut Active Member

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    http://www.blackearth.com/

    I've used this with success. I hardly had any earthworms in my orchard until I added this.

    "Humic substances have been used to increase soil microbial population, soil quality, nutrients uptake and plant growth. Crop total yield increases and healthier plant structures are observed. In the case of turf, humates increase root structure and mass, as well as deepening its colour. Healthy plants also result in more fruit and vegetable yield in the horticulture business. In addition, humic substances perform similarly to an auxin type of growth hormone, promoting the growth of plants and soil microorganisms"
     
  10. chuangxin

    chuangxin Member

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    Thanks for the info guys, humate/fulvate fertilizers (potassium humate, potassium fulvate etc) are organic, the effect is slow. but they can do optimize the structure of soil, promote plants root growth and fruit quality. just try
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2013
  11. pinenut

    pinenut Active Member 10 Years

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    Somebody was marketing "Humic Acid" here about a year ago with good local reviews, so I started looking into it. It appears to come from leonardite shales near or in coal beds. My friend from Energy Mines and Resources had a look for leonardite shales and couldn't see any obvious ones that I could dig up myself. In conversation with the compost guy at the Whitehorse dump (he's got an ag degree) you get the same results from good compost. And its a lot cheaper!
    Cheers
    Carl
     
  12. Tree Nut

    Tree Nut Active Member

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    Compost doesn't go very far whereas one can buy granulated humic acid and do 1000 acres if you wanted. It is quite concentrated, and a little goes a long way. It's not all that expensive for a fifty pound bag and that is enough to do a very large garden and more.
     
  13. pinenut

    pinenut Active Member 10 Years

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    Dunno. The Whitehorse dump sells compost by the bag or by the pickup load. My pickup is a 1953 3 ton dump truck. I can't remember how much the guy was charging for Humic Acid, or what I paid for five yards of compost, so I kinda spoke out of turn when I said it was cheaper. My garden soil (sandy clay) needs to be lightened up anyway, so I'm happy.
    Cheers
    Carl
     
  14. Tree Nut

    Tree Nut Active Member

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    Well if you can buy compost by the dump truck (and have a dump truck yourself), then you are lucky. I was thinking of what a family could compost over a year or so. Some people may have concerns about what's in unknown city dump compost vs millenia old humates with no pollution or toxins. Not me though. I take what I can get, but may not use it in my veggie garden.
     

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