Premature offering of tentatively named palmatum varieties

Did you ever bother to ask Esveld where
they got their Maple from, who named it
an Aureum and when it was named
Aureum? I believe Aureum was named
by Nicholson in Great Britain in 1881. I
did not mention England in my last post,
did I?

There were Japanese Maples in the US
before the Gold Rush! The oldest dissectum
on record outside of Japan was found near
Marin in the 70's. The counting of the annual
growth rings after its passing amounts to a
Maple older than Esveld's Aureum, if their
date is correct. I agree though, we cannot
compare a deceased Maple with a live one.

You made your point in that there may have
been some cultivated Maples propagated at
Esveld before I gave them credit for.

Jim

 

Having read the thread on premature introduction of Maples, I would like to add one or two thoughts myself. We have been growing Japanese Maples in our family bussiness for almost 150 years now, as I am the fifth generation in our family doing so. The last 25 years the number of Acer palmatum cultivars virtually exploded, so I agree that many of them would not have been introduced if people would have had a wider perspective than just their own backyard. Our own selection criterium has always been that you can recognize the "new" maple from at least 5 metres. It should have original characteristics which will distinguish it from other established Japanese maples.
One exception was made for our latest introduction Acer palmatum 'Firecracker' that looks not very different from other red leaved Dissectums, but will grow almost twice as fast....

Cor van Gelderen
Esveld

 

A most welcome to this forum.

From an old purist view, many of today's
new introductions have not come from
seedling selection but have arisen from
limb sports that have been grafted. The
problem here is that so few of these new
grafted sports have had enough time to
know if they will hold up over time without
significant changes seen from what was
then a few years ago until now. Also, we
have been suspect in our ability to choose
specific rootstocks for grafting. In my view
and also shared by some of my mentors in
Maples, more importantly, specific species
rootstocks chosen of which when confronted
or asked about the propagator cannot tell
with certainty which species rootstock they
used to graft their promising limb sport onto.
It is bad enough much of the time that so
many people cannot distinguish between
Acer palmatum, Acer amoenum and Acer
matsumurae. For many years knowing which
cultivars are which species forms did not
matter much to me until we started to graft
these plants. It does make a difference in
grafting Acer palmatum onto Acer amoenum
rootstock and then taking those grafted plants
and graft onto Acer matsumurae for the next
generation plants. The reverse situation can
also be true by originally grafting Acer palmatum
onto Acer matsumurae and then taking those
grafted plants and grafting onto Acer amoenum.
In some circles gathering seed from those second
generation mixed blood plants have resulted in
unusual seedlings showing some characteristics
of both species form plants but with a few
seedlings that are not quite like either parent
as well. With this in mind do we have a bona
fide Mendelian genetics hybrid seedling or do
we have a suspected "asexual", manufactured
seedling we want others to think and believe
is a genetic hybrid? In today's world which
the new prospective plant is does not really
matter. From a genetics view stating this
new plant is a genetic hybrid may be far
from conclusive but from a practical view
with knowledge of the genetic components
used to develop this plant, we can assume
that genetically this plant is not the same
as the original Acer palmatum plant was;
prior to it being grafted and after two
interspecies graftings later the resultant
seedlings can no longer be perceived
as being true blood Acer palmatum any
longer. We have had plenty of instances
in Citrus by using Oranges grafted onto
Lemons and then take that Orange and
bud or graft onto a Mandarin that have
had some interesting results from those
Orange x Lemon = Orange - Orange x
Mandarin seedlings. What can be
automatically assumed is that the
second generation seedling probably
is not genetically the same as the original
Orange was.

The beauty of Esveld is that you can
compare seedlings with enough existing
mature plants in the ground to know
if the new promising seedling is different
enough over time to consider giving it
a name. What I and others may have
some reservations about are when two
unlike cultivars such as Tiger Rose are
in the trade and are being sold with the
same name. One is a clear cut reticulated
Maple and the original plant from Oregon
clearly was not and in no way are these
two plants seemingly related to each other.
It might be different if one plant was a
variant form of the other but in this
case one plant originated from Azuma
murasaki and the other originated
from Beni shigitatsu sawa.

Jim

 

The introduction of a new cultivar is a problem in all popular plants (roses, daylilies, hostas, for example). It seems as though Japanese maples and related maples are falling into the "hot" plant list. It causes problems just as it does in popular dog breeds. Any time there is a huge demand for something, the quality goes down. When I first joined this forum, I was surprised that no one seemed to know anything about the registration process for new Japanese maples. After reading all the comments I am thinking there really isn't a procedure or organization who monitors this, am I correct? The only organization I am familiar with is the hosta society, which has a strict registration process. Forms have to be filled out with information about the origin, genetics, etc. Yes, people can still stick a name on a plant and throw it out there (tissue culture makes that really easy with hostas), but it is really frowned upon and this kind of keeps that to a minimum. The rule of thumb for registered hostas is that you should be able to tell what cultivar it is from 10 feet for it to be considered different enough to be introduced and it should have been grown in the ground for 5 years before introducing it.

However, that has taken many local societies, state societies and the national donating money to support a group to monitor this and the maple society isn't quite like that.

I see this as becoming a really big problem very quickly with maples. There were named Japanese maples at our local grocery store for $17. this year for the first time. What are the odds that those are truly the cultivars that appeared on the tags?

There is such a learning curve with maples. First growing conditions, then you get into the grafts. I planted my first Japanese maple over 15 years ago and it was just recently reading the postings on this site about the life of a tree and how important the graft is. I never paid much attention to the grafts. Once I started looking at mine I was shocked at the difference between the quality of the grafts. Then came along the "supposed" hybrids between palmatums and shirasawanums, etc. I am still skeptical because how do you really know? I mean, in maples do people really cross the two, making sure that they are not pollinated by a bee or something else, or do they just go by appearance of buds and other external differences? Now, Jim is bringing up something else with grafting that I never even thought of. How many people grow seedlings to use as grafts not even considering whether or not they use palmatum to palmatum or whatever? I'll bet a lot. Wow, a lot to digest.

I don't really see any answer, except being educated and responsible if you're a grower. As a purchaser, pick your sources carefully. Like I said above, this is not an isolated problem with only Japanese maples.
Kay

 

.....and it continues.Just noticed a couple of nurseries offering their own new maples with bright yellow winter bark..call me a sceptic but...

 

Hi Esveld

I hope you are well.

I’m trying to find some information on the Acer Palmatum Firecracker as I have an opportunity to buy one tomorrow. I’m looking for a new tree for my small collection and although there are a few pictures out there I can’t find as much info on it as I can with many others. It will only be between 3 and 5 years old which I’m happy with but I just wondered what people’s experiences are with it.

Is this something you can shed some light on?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

Luke