Please ID me

Discussion in 'Orchidaceae (orchids)' started by wazungy, Nov 2, 2009.

  1. wazungy

    wazungy Active Member 10 Years

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    What sort of orchid is this please?

    Can anyone ID?

    Thanks
     

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  2. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Maybe a Phragmipedium besseae or hybrid of the species ? Is it growing with the roots in water ? Interesting.
     
  3. wazungy

    wazungy Active Member 10 Years

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    A quick google of your suggestion name seems to hit the mark

    However, there seems to be some variation in the shape of the flower petals. Perhaps it is a hybrid.

    I took the photo at a show. I should have photographed the tag on the plant.

    I know nothing about orchids.

    Thanks for the ID.

    Wazungy
     
  4. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I don't know much about them either, have killed a few and some have survived, but find them fascinating. Would expect some variation even within the species. Thanks for sharing the photo.
     
  5. kevind76

    kevind76 Active Member

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    It is a Phragmipedium besseae hybrid for sure. It looks to me like Phrag. Mem. Dick Clements or Rosalie Dixler. There are so many besseae hybrids, that after a while, they all start to look the same. Which show did you take it at? Try this link: http://www.phragweb.info/main_page.asp It doesn't have as many pictures as I would like, but it's very good.
     
  6. wazungy

    wazungy Active Member 10 Years

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    I think the show was in Langley. Recent.

    Thanks for the confirmation.

    Cheers
     
  7. togata57

    togata57 Generous Contributor 10 Years

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    Looks a lot like my Dick Clements.
     
  8. kevind76

    kevind76 Active Member

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    I was there! It was a good show, but very lacking in Phrags. Unfortunately, I didn't check the name of that one. It was a nice one, for sure. I can see if I can find out for sure about the name, though. I was happy to see a Disa there, which are not often seen.
     
  9. wazungy

    wazungy Active Member 10 Years

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    Kev,

    Don't go out of your way to get an exact ID.
    I am quite happy with the phragmepedium part.

    Wazungy
     
  10. wazungy

    wazungy Active Member 10 Years

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    it DOES look alot like a Dick Clements, doesn't it!?!?
     
  11. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    I'll third the ID for Phrag bessai 'Dick Clements' - that same cultivar was on display earlier this year at the Quito Orchid Expo. One of my personal faves, for the slipper orchids.
     
  12. kevind76

    kevind76 Active Member

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    To be correct, it's not a cultivar - it's a hybrid. They are called bessese hybrids, because besseae dominates in colour and form. It is Phrag. sargentianum x besseae. The way it is written is Phragmipedium Mem. Dick Clements. No quotations. If there were, they would be after the name, indicating a specific cultivar, or clone, like this: Phrag. Mem. Dick Clements 'Rocket Flash'.
     
  13. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Kevin, not Phrag. besseae x sargentianum ? Lorax, thought you posted a photo of one very similar or alike on the forum here, but can't seem to find it right now.
     
  14. kevind76

    kevind76 Active Member

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    It doesn't matter. The cross is registered by the RHS as a cross between the two. You can get some different results if you switch them, but that's where the clonal names come in. It would get very confusing if besseae x sargentianum was one name, and sargentianum x besseae was another.
     
  15. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Kevin, I see, usually the seed parent is mentioned first with other plant hybrid crosses, helpful to other hybridizers following the parentage and traits of the hybrids.
     
  16. kevind76

    kevind76 Active Member

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    To me, that just makes things confusing. Why should it matter which plant was the pollen and which the pod? The cross is plant A x plant B. Period. But, as I've come to realize, the hybrid registrations of orchids is very much different from almost every other plant family.
     
  17. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Seem to be some quite complex hybrids among the orchids. Getting off topic here, but all interesting.
     
  18. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    I did indeed; if my memory serves me correctly the photo is in the set I posted just after the Quito expo, way back in February.

    Here's the link to that thread, and a direct link to the photo in question as well.

    The Best of the 09 Orchid Expo in Quito

    The photo - Phragmipedium Mem Dick Clements
     
  19. kevind76

    kevind76 Active Member

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    Great pictures lorax! Thanks. Unfortunatley, whoever labelled the plant in question, was wrong. The one you have as Phrag. Mem. Dick Clements is in fact a straight Phrag. besseae. You also have a picture of a Phrag. sargentianum (or possibly lindleyanum, but they are very close). I''m not sure how to post that link, but you have it labelled as Phragmipedium 7. It is those two that are crossed together to make the Mem. Dick Clements.
     
  20. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Last edited: Nov 12, 2009
  21. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Kevin, so what I'm understanding is that Mem. Dick Clements is the grex plant name of the cross you mentioned and the reverse cross still has the same grex name ? And multiple named clones have come out of the same cross. Would just like to be clear on it , thanks.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2009
  22. kevind76

    kevind76 Active Member

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    Yep. That's it. The same two species are used, so whichever one was the pod or pollen parent, it doesn't matter - it's still the same grex. This was registered in 1992, so there have been many hundreds of these produced. It has also been re-made many times using better parents. Not all have clonal names - usually only award winning plants get clonal names. This is an excellent link to give you some more insight into orchid hybrids and species. http://www.phragweb.info/phragmipedium/hybrids/infrageneric/photos/display_infhybrid_thumbnails_phrag.asp?phrag_id=197&phrag_name=Memoria+Dick+Clements&photo_type=P&photo=True&detail=False Click on the links to go back and forth through the site. For this specific grex, sometimes Phrag. besseae forma flavum (the yellow form) has been used, so the result is a much paler colour.
     
  23. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Kevin, That's interesting, thanks much for the clarification. Had really expected the grex naming would help to distinguish between the pod and pollen parents. Thanks again for the link, very informative.
     
  24. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    The explanation of orchid naming standards here helps a lot www.firstrays.com/orchid_names.htm
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2009
  25. kevind76

    kevind76 Active Member

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    Thanks, but I'm going at it the other way around. I need someone to explain to me the system (or lack there of) of naming other plant families. So far, I have noticed that, for example, bananas, carnivorous plant (which I know, are not a plant family, but a group of like plants) and lilies (the genus, not the family) seem to go by the rule 'anything goes'. If you find a plant with nice characteristics, either the result of breeding, selection or whatever, you can name it, and not give any recognition to what species it came from, or even if it is a species. Orchids have a family tree, that for most, you can trace hybrids back many generations to find out what makes up a certain hybrid. If there is any plant that is found to have prized characteristics, it is given a clonal name, with the hybrid or species name before it, so you know exactly where it came from. It will just take some getting used to, going from orchid naming to other plants, and I'll just have to accept that that's the way it is. Is there any other plant family or group of plants that has a system like orchids?
     

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