Identification: Plant Id.

Discussion in 'Indoor and Greenhouse Plants' started by roblew, Sep 20, 2007.

  1. roblew

    roblew Member

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    Please help identify this plant.
    It's almost 30 yrs old.
    Thank You
     

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  2. joclyn

    joclyn Rising Contributor

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    it's an aroid...could be a philodendron or possibly an alocasia. more likely a phil, tho.

    it's beautiful! nice & healthy, too!
     
  3. roblew

    roblew Member

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    Thank You.
    Your right it looks like a phili.
     
  4. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Without a doubt a Philodendron. The problem with an ID is there are many species with this general shape. Can you take a photo of the base of the plant and if it has ever produced a spathe and spadix during the time you've had it that would go a long way toward a positive ID. Most Philodendron species are identified by the shape of the spathe. Measurements of the leaves will also help. If a new leaf is beginning to emerge photograph that as well. Most botanists need a good number of photographs in order to ID a plant.
     
  5. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    I've tried to isolate some possibilities, but without more documentation it is extremely difficult to put a scientific name on this Philodendron. The most likely candidate is Philodendron sagittifolium Liebm. That is one of the most common Central American species being grown in collections today. The leaves can easily reach 30 inches (75cm) but the main problem with identifying the specimen is the variability of the species. There are many known leaf forms and the plant varies from country to country and region to region. As a result, if you look up Philodendron sagittifolium you'll likely find many different photos with different shapes to the leaves.

    Typically, the inside of the spathe (what most would call a "flower") is burgundy in color if it were this species. The spathe is often cylindrical in shape and white on the outside. To be certain we'd need the detail photos I specified earlier along with numerous measurements. As you can see, this specimen is growing from a cane which is quite common with Philodendron species. The distance between internodes on that cane can be a clue to the identity of the species. Another clue can be the coloration of the petiole. If the petiole (stem holding the leaf) is reddish in color that could indicate a completely different species, possibly Philodendron erubescens. The biggest single determining factor would be a photo of the spathe and spadix (incorrectly called a "flower"). These are unique from species to species.

    At the age you indicted, if this plant were in the rain forest it would easily be 40 feet (13 meters) or more off the ground by now.
     
  6. joclyn

    joclyn Rising Contributor

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    wow!! i had no idea they could get that big!!
     
  7. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    This one is a "baby". While in Miami I photographed several Philodendron species with absolutely enormous leaves. One of the more spectacular is Philodendron maximum from Ecuador. The leaves of the plant I'm posting here are close to 4 feet long (the first plant below)! There is another species from Trinidad that has leaves that grow to over 6 feet (Philodendron giganteum)! Truly spectacular specimens but I somehow screwed up the photo of the second one.

    The most spectacular is Philodendron spiritus-sancti from SE Brazil. There are now only 6 specimens of this extremely rare Philodendron left in the wild. The plant in my photo (with the long thin blades) has leaves well over 3 feet long. This is the original specimen collected by Bette Waterbury with the famous plant collector Roberto Burle Marx in 1984. The International Aroid Society uses this plant to take one cutting each year to sell at auction. This year the plant demanded $1,600 for a small specimen! It is just that rare. And nope, I didn't buy it! Wanted to, but my wife would have killed me!

    If you want to learn more about the 1000 plus species of Philodendron read this article:

    http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Grow or Growing Philodendrons.html
     

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    Last edited: Sep 22, 2007
  8. roblew

    roblew Member

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    Thanks for your help I will post more pixs and info.
     
  9. roblew

    roblew Member

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    More pixs.

    Here are the rest.
     

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  10. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Re: More pixs.

    The last photo is a sheath from a leaf ready to emerge. Similar to a spathe, but not a spathe.

    Still difficult to tell the species without a spathe and spadix. What you are going to be looking for is the "flower" similar to that of a Peace Lily. All aroid species produce them. The shape won't be exactly the same but the shape of that spathe is very important to knowing the species.

    It isn't a "flower" but instead an inflorescence. There are tiny flowers on the spadix at the center but they are difficult to see. The spathe is simply a modified leaf.

    I'd suggest you consider buying a tall sphagnum moss totem to allow the plant to attach itself. it will take some time now due to the age of the plant but overall the plant will display better and be healthier. You can find them on the net and sometimes at good garden stores. At least a four foot tall one will be needed. Here's a link that may help: https://www.secureserver.com/mosserlee/orderonline.html The pole will come with "pins" to help the plant attach in time.

    Overall, the Philodendron certainly appears to be healthy.
     
  11. Bluewing

    Bluewing Well-Known Member

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    Gorgeous!
     
  12. roblew

    roblew Member

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    Thanks for the info, I'll have to educate myself on the terms.
    I think what you want to see is still enclosed, in a day or two it should
    open.I will take pixs as it opens.
    I will get the pole, I was wondering what I was going to do, I have a stick
    supporting the weight now.
    Thanks Again

    Rob
     
  13. joclyn

    joclyn Rising Contributor

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    steve, i'd found your site about a year ago - haven't gotten all the way through it yet :) that page was one i hadn't read yet. you've done a terrific job on the site - tons of good info!

    rob, i'm curious to see the spath, as well. i do think that's another leaf, tho...
     
  14. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Jocyln. I do it just for the personal enjoyment and so I can personally learn about the species in my collection. When others enjoy the material that makes it even more worthwhile. Right now there are just over 300 pages of plant information on the site but I've got a ton more plants to photograph and describe. I try to add about one each week.

    Now, perhaps a better explanation regarding the spathe. In Philodendron species the spathe normally develops right off the cane adjacent to the leaves. It can have a multitude of shapes and colors. Some are very brightly colored and others are simply green and white. The spathe is the white portion in the photo attached with the green outside. Inside that you'll see the spadix. This is not a flower. It is an inflorescence. The actual flowers develop along the spadix at the center and are very small. Both male and female flowers will develop and are normally divided into groups in order to prevent self pollination. The female flowers become receptive before the male flowers produce pollen. Nature's goal is for an insect to pick up pollen from one inflorescence on a different plant and bring it to the second plant in order to keep the species strong. If pollinated, seed berries will eventually grow along the spadix. Birds eat the berries and then carry the seeds to other portions of the rain forest and leave them in their droppings.

    The vast majority of Philodendron species grow as epiphytes up on the limbs of trees. Many never have their roots touch the soil. They simply gather water from the rain. But some species eventually drop their roots 30 or 40 feet to the soil and then grow even larger.

    Philodendron species are extremely variable. There is no way to look at the shape of a leaf and tell the species. Some species have twenty or more leaf shapes but are still the same species. This fact often confuses many people. We expect every leaf of every plant to look alike. Not so with aroids, especially with Philodendron and Anthurium species. As a result, a botanist has to resort to other ways of identifying the species and the spathe is one important way to do so. Despite the shape of the leaf, the spathe and spadix will remain fairly constant within a species.

    In this photo you can see several spathes still completely closed. On your plant, once it is ready to reproduce, it will produce one or more spathes. Some species produce a single spathe, others clusters. Since we don't know the species, there is no way of knowing what the shape of the spathe and spadix will be. If you are growing what I think you may be growing the spathe may be red on the inside. But that remains to be seen.

    Spathes are most often produced in the spring but different species produce them at varying times of the year. So there is no way of knowing what time of year you may grow one. But when you do, keep a camera handy! Every species has a different shape and color to the spathe. These are one of the primary ways of identifying the species to a botanical scientist.

    If I lost you anywhere with the explanation just ask and I'll try to clarify. Most people seem to think only the little plants you grow on your kitchen counter are Philodendron but in truth there are more than 1000 species and they are often radically different. And again, many species have many more than a single leaf shape. Some have leaves up to 6 feet long!

    The spathe in the photo is from Philodendron williamsii, an extremely rare Brazilian plant. Many people on eBay sell plants calling them Philodendron williamsii but those are normally truly a form of Philodendron stenolobum. Lots of people get easily confused about Philodendron species. There's also a great deal of "fiction" on the internet regarding this genus.

    Keep your eyes open!
     

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    Last edited: Sep 24, 2007
  15. roblew

    roblew Member

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    Thanks for all your info.
    I understand what your saying.
    So this is just a new leaf coming now.
    I havn't seen it flower yet but my Mother inlaw said she
    has seen it flower.I will watch and wait.
    Thanks Again Steve & Jocyln for your help.

    Rob
     

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