Propagation: Pinus arizonica

Discussion in 'Gymnosperms (incl. Conifers)' started by fredmcain, Apr 30, 2019.

  1. fredmcain

    fredmcain Active Member

    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Topeka, IN USA
    Has anyone attempted to plant and cultivate pinus arizonica outside its natural range? Also, has anyone ever been able to find this in a nursery? I haven't had any luck.

    Regards,
    Fred M. Cain
     
  2. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

    Messages:
    10,724
    Likes Received:
    163
    Location:
    Britain zone 8/9
    There are a few specimens in various botanical collections in Britain. It grows OK, but I've not seen it produce cones here, perhaps because our summers are too chilly for it.
     
  3. Michigander

    Michigander Active Member

    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    50
    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan, USA
    Fred, at the risk of citing you as a glutton for punishment, you seem to want to prove that some difficult species can grow in your neck of the woods. I, too, grow things that don't belong where I am, but I do it because I'm a glutton for punishment. I don't keep count, but I probably lose more than half of my attempts. I'm guessing that this Ponderosa wannabe will fall into the "not certainly hardy" category. I've only seen one Ponderosa survive in MI. It was at Hidden Lake Gardens, the Michigan State U. botanical garden devoted to conifers. It was ~20 feet or so and dropped dead one winter. I don't know much about it, but I'm guessing our cold wet springs last too long, especially following our long, occasionally deeply cold winters. I'm also betting that if you park these right next to your Redwoods, they both die in the same winter (of frozen roots).
     
  4. pinenut

    pinenut Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    257
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Whitehorse, Yukon Zone 0b or 1a
    Hmm. I've got a Ponderosa that's been hanging on for a few years. Looks pretty scruffy, but then it looked scruffy when I bought it as a Canadian tire leftover. Go for it Fred!
     
  5. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

    Messages:
    20,030
    Likes Received:
    258
    Location:
    WA USA (Z8)
    Many planted Pinus ponderosa here in the Seattle area are having significant problems with needle cast in later years. P. jeffreyi appears to have some resistance.
     
  6. fredmcain

    fredmcain Active Member

    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Topeka, IN USA
    Michigander & Group,

    Well, I dunno about that, maybe I am just a bit of a “glutton for punishment”. I would like to tell you how I got interested and involved in this in the first place but I’ll leave that for a different thread.

    As for pinus ponderosa, there is a subtle difference between that and pinus arizonica. Make no mistake about it, my pinus ponderosa specimens have done just fine here. (I’m in northern Indiana about 18-20 miles south-southwest of Sturgis, MI, if you know where that is.

    I have had four of ‘em in the ground for around 25 years and they are (were) really hardy. (My son cut one of them down this spring because they were too tight not because it wasn’t healthy).

    But I do spray them with a systemic fungicide. The cold doesn’t bother them at all. They are rated as hardy in zones 3-8 but I would imagine that if you were in zone 7 or 8 in the southeastern U.S. they would probably do very poorly there – it’s just too warm, damp and humid.

    The real question is, however, what about pinus arizonica? When I was in school, I was taught that this was NOT a unique species but only a variety of ponderosa pine (pinus ponderosa var. arizonica). I actually agree with that original assessment but I am not a botanist so, they may be right, I don’t know for sure.

    This is a somewhat unusual pine tree in that it has needles in bundles of twos, threes, fours and fives which can occasionally be found ALL ON THE SAME TREE! Most of the sheaths, however, are in bundles of four.

    I lived in Arizona for many, many years for most of my childhood and early adult years so it’s only natural that I would just LOVE to add this to my collection.

    Regards,

    Fred M. Cain

    P.S. to Michigander. Were you the one who wrote the article in the recent conifer society magazine about “pushing zones” or was that someone else? Maybe I’m guilty of this too!
     
  7. fredmcain

    fredmcain Active Member

    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Topeka, IN USA
    Ron,

    This may very well be (but is also not limited), to "needle tip blight". Spray with "Propiconazole". This works for me. However, I do not live in the Pacific Northwest so you might have a fungus there that I'm not familiar with.

    Another issue is that when the trees get over about 20 feet high, they get much harder to spray.

    There are two major fungus problems related to pinus ponderosa one is red band needle blight (i.e. Dothistroma Needle Blight) and another is "tip blight". In both cases it is critical to spray with propiconazole or a similar systemic fungicide in the spring before the buds open then two weeks later after they leaf out. This is advice that is not too terribly different from a fruit tree spraying schedule. Peaches also suffer from a deadly fungus known as "peach leaf curl".

    On the two types of ponderosa pine fungus, this was my source: https://dnrtreelink.wordpress.com/2015/07/09/help-i-think-my-ponderosa-pine-is-dying/

    Regards,
    Fred M. Cain,
    Topeka, IN
     
  8. Michigander

    Michigander Active Member

    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    50
    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan, USA
    Not my article. I'm not a member of conifer societies, I am already overextended in Hosta and Bonsai. I have a propensity to take things to the logical extreme, so if some of something is nice, some hundreds must be great, and the bigger, the better. I am old and maintenance is problematic.

    I'd like to hear that story....
     
  9. fredmcain

    fredmcain Active Member

    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Topeka, IN USA
    Sure, but I'm not sure I can find it again. I'll try. It may have gone out with the trash, I'm not sure. There wasn't a lot to the article but that guy was in Michigan, too, so that's why I was wondering.

    I know you've heard the old cliché over and over "you're only as old as you feel". I'm sure your gardening probably helps you with your health.

    I am 67 and ride my bicycle to work and back everyday - round trip of around 7 miles. It keeps me feeling pretty good.

    I mentioned that I've had my ponderosa pines in the ground for 25 years now. This year I planted a lot of new trees including more ponderosas, noble firs, Doug firs, and Engelmann spruce and (of course) more Sequoias. Realistically, I realize that I probably won't have 25 years left now to watch them grow but that's just life. Perhaps someone else might enjoy them after all.

    Regards,
    Fred M. Cain
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
    Daniel Mosquin and Michigander like this.

Share This Page