Pine tree problem with needles

Discussion in 'Outdoor Gardening in the Pacific Northwest' started by benzmum, Oct 27, 2019.

  1. benzmum

    benzmum Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Vancouver
    ...But I'd rather like to confirm it's diseased, so I'll get a shot of the needles. I've had him since he was a BABY (aka seedling)!!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Georgia Strait

    Georgia Strait Generous Contributor

    Messages:
    2,005
    Likes Received:
    769
    Location:
    South Okanagan & Greater Vancouver, BC Canada
    Oh and likely the soil may need safe disposal .... I am NOT a plant pathologist but for a small price of sterilized clean Soil and a new planter it’s likely worth it in case it is a disease issue.

    I very much dislike seeing my shrubs pruned and trees cut - however sometimes it needs to happen
     
  3. Georgia Strait

    Georgia Strait Generous Contributor

    Messages:
    2,005
    Likes Received:
    769
    Location:
    South Okanagan & Greater Vancouver, BC Canada
    Oh dear - she was a nice looking youngster!

    My property partner orders thé garden service and I have to leave for the day!
     
    benzmum likes this.
  4. Sundrop

    Sundrop Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,057
    Likes Received:
    98
    Location:
    Kootenays, BC, Canada
    Thanks for the pic benzmum. I was probably not very specific. I wanted to see what is the container size in relation to the tree size. Seeing container alone is not enough. It can't be only 13 cubic inches, even a pot as small as 2x2x3 inches has 12 cubic inches. In my opinion the roots in your container are no longer able to sustain the tree and make it strong enough to resist disease. In such circumstances any measures employed to treat the disease will not work regardless of what kind of disease it could be. It doesn't have to be disease though, it can be excessive seasonal needle drop. What's wrong with my plant? : Garden : University of Minnesota Extension
     
  5. benzmum

    benzmum Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Vancouver
    A shot of needles - mostly from the ground - has been included, Sulev. What do you think? Anyone else want to weigh in?
     

    Attached Files:

  6. benzmum

    benzmum Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Oh dear, silly me! Of course it's not 13 cu in. It's actually 2,197 cu inches. The tree is 7 feet tall above ground, and the container is just over a foot deep. The tree is 5 feet wide from branch tip to branch tip on the opposite side. Does that help, or do you need to see what it looks like in relation to the container? It's definitely outgrown its container.

    I need to know if it's got a disease, or if the browning is just a symptom of root stress?
     
  7. benzmum

    benzmum Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Vancouver
    A fellow has contacted me wanting to take the tree for planting. If this looks like its diseased, I'll tell him I don't advise he do that and I'll put it in the garbage for landfill.

    Can you confirm this tree's infected?
     
  8. Sulev

    Sulev Contributor

    Messages:
    1,216
    Likes Received:
    376
    Location:
    Estonia
    There are not clear symptoms of Lophodermium seditiosum on those photos. Of course, there are fungi on the litter, but this is part of the normal nutrient cycle.
    Even if there is Lophodermium seditiosum infection, even then the tree is unlikely to die because of it. Lophodermium seditiosum is a common needle disease and it is widespread. Their spores are almost everywhere, so you do not spread it, if your fellow takes the tree. In my area some generations of young pine forests get this infection 2-3 times during their first 15 years, but still survive. Greater risk is only for very young trees - 1...3 year old, they may suffer more because of loosing most of their needles. This disease usually attacks only trees, that have less than 5m of height.
    The tree has nice and strong last years growth - it has not been extremely stressed because of limited root space. Its buds look nice also. I think it is ok to give it to your fellow to plant it into the ground.

    Compared your needles with the photos on the Pine needle disease identifier (link of that I provided above,), and it seems to me, that there are symptoms of the Red Band Needle Blight (Mycosphaerella pini / Dothistroma septosporum, disease 1.1. from the identifier). This is relatively new disease, in my country they found first infections ca 13 years ago. I personally haven't met trees infected by this disease.
    Google translation from description of that disease:
    "The characteristic feature is, in particular, the drying and stalling of needles in the lower part of the crown during the 2nd and 3rd year (i.e., the previous and the previous to the previous year). Needles develop red bands, which are also a basic feature of the disease (Figure 1). In the area of the red band, a fungal fruiting body of the anamorphic stage, or acervulus, develops through the epidermis to the surface of the thorn (see section 2.1.1 for more information)."
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
    benzmum likes this.
  9. benzmum

    benzmum Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Thanks, Sulev. The fellow who wants the tree says he's not concerned and he'll come see it tomorrow. I'd like to see this tree have a chance in the ground.
     
  10. benzmum

    benzmum Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Vancouver
    And the pine tree's on its way to be planted in the ground, which makes me happy. The fellow who took it is a retired landscaper and he has no concerns about it having something that may be infectious. Next spring he'll email me a photo of it in its new home; I hope to see it then with no brown needles, i.e., no symptoms of root stress.

    Thanks for your help, all who contributed to my questions!
     
    Georgia Strait likes this.
  11. Georgia Strait

    Georgia Strait Generous Contributor

    Messages:
    2,005
    Likes Received:
    769
    Location:
    South Okanagan & Greater Vancouver, BC Canada
    great news! it must have been heavy to move.

    good point - I wonder how long it will take for the tree to be all green again - do evergreens grow back healthy green needles in spots where they have been damaged (ie brown)

    i know a couple of evergreens in different locations where cars caught fire and burned underneath the trees. Of course the trees turned brown in the area closest to fire below. (the tree lived overall) --- but maybe heat of fire is a whole different scenario than root stress etc.
     
  12. Sundrop

    Sundrop Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,057
    Likes Received:
    98
    Location:
    Kootenays, BC, Canada
    Conifers, like all other trees don't keep their leaves/needles forever. Some, like Larches, loose their needles all at once in fall and replace them with a new growth in spring, but most do it gradually over a period of several years. It is no reason to worry when some needles change colour and drop. It becomes a problem only when the needle drop becomes excessive. It could be a sign of environmental stress or a sign of disease, or both.
     
  13. Georgia Strait

    Georgia Strait Generous Contributor

    Messages:
    2,005
    Likes Received:
    769
    Location:
    South Okanagan & Greater Vancouver, BC Canada
    Thx Sundrop - thé other places w brown needle evergreens is on the big curves of the mountain pass highways like the Hope Princeton Hwy 3 and the traffic and plows sprays salty snow on the trees

    I think on the west side of Sunday Summit there’s an example

    LARCH is fascinating - from the west side of Okanagan Lake (Summerland) one views fr a distance a huge yellow swath on the hills above Naramata (Chute Lake ) - above the KVR trans Canada self propelled rail trail
     

Share This Page