Philo. Burl Marx # 7

Discussion in 'Araceae' started by trikus, Nov 7, 2007.

  1. trikus

    trikus Active Member

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    This sp. has still not been described [as far as I know], even after many years in cultivation .
    It is listed in the brilliant book 'The Tropical Plants of R.Burle Marx' as sp. nova #7.
    Its been in Australia for ages , and I have propagated lots of it .
    Really like the shape , and it looks a little like the great new sp. Joep found.
    sp. nova #1 is P. stenolobum .
    and sp. nova #3 is the very attractive P.superbum .ined. [ this means it is in the process of being published ]
    Steve has some pictures of mine on his site .
     

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    Last edited: Nov 8, 2007
  2. bihai

    bihai Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    That looks so wildly different from my old Plain Jane Burle Marx! It seems the "normal" Burle Marx was once extremely popular in landscaping and collections, but fell out of favor as too common some years ago. It kinda dropped off the market face, and now its "supposedly" a little hard to find. I lucked into a 3 gal container at, of all places, TARGET a couple of years ago, and now, I have to throw Burle Marx onto the compost pile. I have never had a plant that's as fast growing and as vigorous as this one. It attached to EVERYTHING. It will creep, it will climb, it will OVERRUN. I trim it back in the greenhouse CONSTANTLY, probably the only plant I trim back more is my Green Jade vine. I threw cuttings into some flowerbeds last season, and they rooted. It survived the winter here, so I keep throwing more out there. Soon it will probably be growing up all the trees, LOL. Here is one )recently trimmed back, LOL) growing around the pond in the GH
     

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  3. trikus

    trikus Active Member

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    Or as I have seen it just listed on eBay , and Steve also mentioned
    #P69686 [ this is most likely Toms collection number] ..
    In the bo0k from Burle Marx it is just sp. nova #7
    Why does it take so long to describe a species ?
     
  4. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Mic, I can only comment based on what Tom has told me as to why it takes a long time. Tom showed me specimens October of last year he has been working on for years in the MOBOT research greenhouses.

    I asked specifically about P69686 and about Philodendron 'joepii'. Tom insists on knowing where the specimen originates in the wild. In the case of Philodendron 'joepii', the place of origin is known. But there is some evidence that very unique plant is a cross between two neighboring species. Even Joep has now come to the conclusion it is a natural hybrid. So Tom has elected, at least to this point, not to grant it scientific status. Still many of us crave it! I was fortunate enough to be given one but it is still small.

    In the case of P69686, there is also a P69686a. Both are slightly different and both are simply botanical accession numbers assigned the specimens by Tom at MOBOT. As you know, before any plant gets a scientific name it starts as simply a collected sample and the accession number is the very first step. Neither Tom nor Dr. Eduardo Gonçalves have been able to locate that specimen in the wild. So there is no known point of origin other than Roberto's collection. Roberto was known to enjoy experimenting with cross pollination, so P69686 may or may not be a hybrid.

    There is nothing wrong with hybrids, but scientists typically don't work with hybrids, just collected species. I'm told Eduardo is doing work on a bunch of species using DNA. I have no idea if he is testing P69686. But obviously, at least some of the plants we now know as species may be determined to be simply natural hybrids. There are many other very odd specimens that have originated in the Burle Marx collection and my friend Leland Miyano used to work for Roberto and probably has as much knowledge as anyone alive today about some of those strange plants. Leland has one that looks like a combination of Philodendron 'joepii', one sold as Philodendron 'Ecuador' (which is almost certainly just an adult form of Philodendron bipennifolium), P 69686 and something from outer space. That one is really weird! And other than being given to him by Roberto, there is absolutely no information available.

    Part of this (I'm told) dates back to a plant that is now known as Philodendron domesticum. No one has ever found that plant in the wild. Speculation has been made it came from the Guyana Shield, but no one has ever seen it wild. Many speculate, rightly or wrongly, it is nothing more than a hybrid that was given a scientific name. Tom and I discussed that one as well and he apparently does not wish to get caught up in the cross-fire of possibly giving a hybrid a name. If you go back through scientific material (and I know many of you find that very boring) there was some flack over granting Philodendron domesticum a scientific name. Some botanists (I'm told) had a falling out over that one. But still, it has a scientific name and is now considered as species.

    I've often wondered if granting P. domesticum a name in science was just a joke on the scientific community. The plant was originally called "Philodendron hastatum" but another entirely different species from Brazil already had that scientific name. They are not even similar. There is evidence "domesticum" was a hybrid, a domesticated plant. And the joke on botanists just may have been to give a hybrid a scientific name and publish it. Philodendron domesticum, as in "domesticated"?

    I've talked to Tom enough, and traded enough mail with him, to understand he just doesn't wish to get caught up in a situation like that. So people will know what we are talking about here, I've added photos of both P69686 and Philodendron 'joepii'. My specimen of P69686 has proven to be very fast growing and I've given away at least 6 large cuttings. The specimen is still well over four feet tall (120cm) and could easily be cut again, and I've only had it two years. The more it grows, the more it morphs and changes shape. This photo is now about 2 years old.
     

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    Last edited: Nov 13, 2007

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